Rona Lewis and Jeffrey Hansler sit down with retired Long Beach Police Commander Greg Schirmer, also known as ‘Fab’ by Jeffrey and his other Orange County Bucks rugby mates.

Yes. They’ve literally tackled leadership together.

Greg’s path isn’t linear - it’s cinematic. Arts student. Business thinker. Then, just before turning 30, he makes the dramatic life pivot and joins the Long Beach Police Department, fulfilling a childhood dream inspired by his father and a mentor. He builds a career navigating high-conflict rooms where emotions run hotter than Southern California asphalt in August.

And when he retired? No rocking chair. No nostalgia tour. He pivots again — into consulting, bringing real-world de-escalation, negotiation, and leadership training into boardrooms and the teams he coaches. While there are no sirens, there’s still plenty of healthy human tension to manage.

Greg teaches something most leaders desperately need: emotional fitness. Not fluffy empathy. Not buzzword “strategic” empathy. The real kind. The kind that regulates a room because you’ve regulated yourself first.

Because here’s the truth bomb from this episode:

People don’t always want to win. They want to feel heard. They want to be seen.

Whether it’s a volatile public encounter or a volatile earnings call, the principle is the same — if you’re not steady, no one around you will be either. Command presence isn’t volume. It’s regulation.

And yes, they talk rugby. Because nothing says “de-escalation expert” like 80 minutes of structured collision followed by a handshake. Rugby, like leadership, is intensity without hatred. Hit hard. Respect harder.

Greg also unpacks the shift from public service to private sector — different metrics, different language, same fundamental driver: human behavior determines outcomes. The skills that kept him safe and effective as an officer are the same ones helping executives navigate conflict without lighting metaphorical squad cars on fire.

If you care about leadership under pressure, negotiation without ego, emotional intelligence that actually works, or how to pivot careers without losing your identity, this one’s worth the click.

No sirens. No platitudes. Just hard-earned insight with a little rugby grit. And we love your grit so share, subscribe, like, and follow.

If this episode sparks something in you, here are others that continue the leadership conversation:

Episode 206: The Missing Link Between What You Mean and Deliver is Congruency

• https://open.spotify.com/show/7kQz…

• https://www.youtube.com/@BizSoulsPodcast

Episode 207: Hypocrisy Hunted Hilariously

• https://open.spotify.com/show/7kQz…

• https://www.youtube.com/@BizSoulsPodcast

Episode 208: Listen in with Dr. Laura – Or Don’t

• https://open.spotify.com/show/7kQz…

• https://www.youtube.com/@BizSoulsPodcast

Episode 204: The Great Exhaustion

• https://open.spotify.com/show/7kQz…

• https://www.youtube.com/@BizSoulsPodcast

Grab your boxing gloves. And maybe a helmet.

In Episode 210 of Biz-Souls, Rona Lewis and Jeffrey Hansler step into the leadership ring for a knockout, drag-down discussion about creating change — which sounds noble until you actually try to do it.

Rona opens strong, framing the episode around a leadership system inspired by some of the big-brain thinking you’ll find over at Big Think — you know, the kind of thinking where leadership is expansive, inclusive, visionary, and possibly accompanied by swelling orchestral music.

Jeffrey immediately responds with: “All roses and butterfly’s until you add in people!”

Because here’s the thing. Creating change sounds fantastic on a whiteboard. It’s inspiring in a keynote. It looks terrific in a LinkedIn post. And then reality shows up.

Suddenly, your brilliant strategy meets passive and full contact resistance, and your “clear vision” succumbs to cataracts while your town hall meeting becomes the ambush scene in Mel Gibson’s Braveheart.

Rona wants to stay with the system. Jeffrey wants to discuss the pitfalls. Rona wants to highlight the steps. Jeffrey wants to point out the potholes. Rona adds a thought about politics, and Jeffrey redirects back to the topic. Rona quips, “You brought it up.”

It’s leadership ping-pong at its finest, which illustrates reality, because leadership without sarcasm is just… a staff meeting.

And here’s where it gets interesting. Rona and Jeffrey don’t just spar about the problems. They dig into the tension that lives inside leadership:

• Vision vs. execution

• Inspiration vs. implementation

• Alignment vs. “Why are we doing this again?”

And the age-old question: Is resistance stupidity… or just fear wearing a tie? And then Rona brings in something leaders often forget when they’re busy drafting strategic roadmaps: play. Yes. Play.

Not mandatory fun. No trust falls. Not that awkward icebreaker where you describe yourself as a kitchen appliance. Real play. The kind that allows teams to experiment without feeling like they’re one mistake away from career extinction.

This episode is funny. It’s sharp. It’s slightly sarcastic. And it’s painfully real for anyone who has ever tried to lead human beings who insist on having opinions.

If you’ve ever thought, “Why is this so hard?” This episode is for you. Put up your gloves, bring bandages, and have a sense of humor.

Here are other episodes which might interest you:

Episode 139: Play for Better Living!

• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/5EOyx44QYvEkrzE6Fg6fA8

• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdUd8cU1Xg

Episode 137: Just Say No! Maybe.

• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/5O9pVnMLtrVRHfSrkE3dZn

• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ffpbkA2n8

Episode 136: Mature Gnome with Ego

• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/4SrTBRzWZ9MbhycJw5Nkwv

• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl6sKzNUWTo

Episode 125: How to Retrain Your Brain

• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/6Sl8zVZB6Jx5DMHg8lN9aH

• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA4P9HvbKVI

And as always, like, share, subscribe, and follow so we can stay connected.

BTW - The article "The six elements of successful leadership system" by Scott J. Allen, Ph.D & David Day

In this information-packed (and mind-expanding) episode of Biz-Souls, your ever-curious co-hosts Rona Lewis and Jeffrey Hansler sit down with the visionary Aaron Windrum to unpack the present and future of HR and Artificial Intelligence.

And no, this is not another “AI is coming for your job” doomcast. Aaron flips the script.

While headlines scream layoffs and robots, he sees something different: more jobs. Better jobs. Higher-value jobs.

The twist? They won’t look like the ones you have now.

Organizations today are experimenting, piloting, and integrating. AI is screening resumes, predicting turnover, personalizing learning, automating onboarding, and whispering sweet data-driven insights into the ears of HR leaders.

Translation? The paperwork is shrinking. The people-work is expanding.

Aaron explains how AI is moving HR from compliance cop to culture catalyst. Instead of drowning in forms and spreadsheets, HR professionals are increasingly freed up to focus on coaching, strategy, connection, and leadership development.

The dark side?

Well… that’s the part we’re still negotiating as a society.

Aaron doesn’t sugarcoat it. He discusses both the promise and the peril — and why ethical leadership will matter more than ever.

One of the juiciest conversations? The growing disconnects between traditional education and what organizations actually need.

Degrees alone aren’t the golden ticket anymore. Skills are.

The future belongs to lifelong learners, skill-stackers, and curious minds. Your individual responsibility (and pleasure!) will be continuous learning.

Aaron’s journey alone is worth the listen. He once planned to become a veterinarian. Instead, he became the youngest manager worldwide for KFC (Kentucky Fried Chicken). From there? Listen in and find out!

Let’s just say, he’s living proof that careers are rarely straight lines — they’re more like beautifully chaotic scribbles with purpose.

The future of HR isn’t about less humanity — it’s about elevating it.

Listen to More Biz-Souls Episodes:

Episode 206: The Missing Link Between What You Mean and Deliver is Congruency

• https://open.spotify.com/show/5lq9xyzBizSouls

• https://www.youtube.com/@BizSoulsPodcast

Episode 204: The Great Exhaustion

• https://open.spotify.com/show/5lq9xyzBizSouls

• https://www.youtube.com/@BizSoulsPodcast

Episode 202: Persuasion, Negotiation & Sales in a Chaotic World

• https://open.spotify.com/show/5lq9xyzBizSouls

• https://www.youtube.com/@BizSoulsPodcast

If you want to understand where HR is going and how AI is reshaping organizations, this episode is for you.

Listen in. Learn up. Level up. And as always, like, subscribe, share, and comment.

Because even in an AI-driven future, engagement is still very human.

In the newest Biz-Souls deep dive, your dynamic duo, Rona Lewis and Jeffrey Hansler, sit with the one and only Dr. Laura Janusik to unpack one of the most misunderstood and most misused skills in life, leadership, and business.

Listening. Not waiting to talk. Not reloading your opinion. Not speed-scrolling someone’s face while mentally drafting your rebuttal. Actual listening.

While many leaders talk to prove their prowess (and occasionally their PowerPoint prowess), listening changes everything. Why? Because listening is never neutral. It’s cultural. It’s neurological. It’s ego-logical.

In high-context societies like Japan, listeners may wait a full 8 seconds before replying.

In low-context American culture, we wait approximately… half a comma.

This isn’t rudeness — it’s systems at work. Cultural wiring. Conversational choreography. And yes, sometimes caffeinated impatience. The problem? On the global stage, the quick interrupter doesn’t always win. Sometimes they just win the gold medal in Missing the Point.

Human brains are wired for pattern detection and prediction often at the expense of actual listening. We hear three words and decide we know the ending. It’s like binge-watching someone’s sentence and skipping to season finale conclusions.

Social media isn’t helping. It trains attention to broadcast, not receive. We “share our truth” at Olympic speed. Meanwhile, deep listening quietly packs its bags and leaves the chat.

Every hostage negotiator, CEO, teacher, team lead - and frankly, anyone who has ever said “That’s not what I meant” - should study listening like a survival skill. Because ignoring it is like trying to swim with concrete shoes… while giving a TED Talk.

Dr. Laura flips assumptions upside down gently, intelligently, and occasionally with a smile that says, “You thought you were listening, didn’t you?”

She shares with Rona and Jeffrey:

• The cost of “listening and walking away” as a leader (politicians and managers… this one may sting a little).

• How values, high/low-context communication, and social expectations shape the way we hear or hilariously mishear one another.

• Why active listening and psychological safety may have started in therapy, but now belong in boardrooms.

• And why Israelis, New Yorkers, Italians - you name it - interrupt not out of disrespect, but because of centuries of cultural rhythm. In some cultures, overlapping isn’t interruption, it’s enthusiasm with hand gestures.

If you’ve ever finished someone’s sentence incorrectly…

If you’ve ever thought, “That’s not what I said!”

If you’ve ever been in a meeting where everyone nodded and nothing changed…

This episode is your gentle intervention.

Why not start your listening improvement plan immediately by tuning into this episode and reinforcing the message by liking, sharing, following, and subscribing? If nothing else, it gives your jaw and tongue a well-earned rest.

Because sometimes the most powerful voice in the room… is the one that pauses.

Here are a few other popular episodes you’ll enjoy listening to:

• Episode 205 – High Ideals Plus Human Habits Brings on a Hypocrisy Hangover

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/5O9pVnMLtrVRHfSrkE3dZn

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ffpbkA2n8

• Episode 204 – The Great Exhaustion

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/bizsouls-episode-204

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bizsouls204

• Episode 202 – Persuasion, Negotiation & Sales in a Chaotic World

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/bizsouls-episode-202

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bizsouls202

• Episode 201 – Bayes, Brains, and the Internet Illusion

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/5EOyx44QYvEkrzE6Fg6fA8 (placeholder)

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@biz-souls3926

• Episode 139 – Play for Better Living!

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/5EOyx44QYvEkrzE6Fg6fA8

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdUd8cU1JXg

Our dynamic duo, Rona Lewis and Jeffrey Hansler, are back — and this time they’re tackling the slippery, sneaky, side-eye subject of incongruency.

Fresh off their episode on hypocrisy, they double down and drill deep into what happens when leaders say one thing… and their body language, bonus structure, or boardroom behavior says another.

If you’ve ever taken a body language class, you’ve likely seen the now-legendary clip of President Clinton saying, “I did not have sexual relations with that woman.” It’s practically Body Language 101. Experts love dissecting micro-expressions, eye movements, and vocal tone from that moment.

Why? Because incongruency is detectable.

When words and physiology don’t match, trust erodes faster than a corporate mission statement during layoffs. And that’s where Rona expertly yanks the conversation back to business.

The duo explores real-world organizational congruency, including Sears, once a retail titan and now reduced to five remaining retail locations. Next, they move on to the pseudo-partnership between Vistage, a global CEO advisory organization built around peer accountability and leadership development, and the National Speakers Association, a professional association built on elevating the speaking industry.

What happens when brands losses alignment between innovation, leadership decisions, and marketplace reality? Congruency matters. Nostalgia doesn’t pay the rent.

When incongruency isn’t dealt with, it becomes a contagion affecting everyone in the organization. How do your values, credibility, and performance standards align? Your business is your message and incongruency is especially expensive.

Once you become familiar with the signs of incongruency in organizations and in leadership, spotting Incongruency is as easy as spotting a red wine stain on a white suit.

While Rona reminds us that leadership is about alignment and not perfect posture, she quickly moves on to her favorite topics of play, leadership, and living your values.

Congruency isn’t a PR strategy, it’s a performance strategy.

This episode matters in a world of corporate virtue signaling and social media over-messaging, because leaders who workshop their authenticity with congruency create a competitive advantage. When your words, actions, incentives, and culture match people feel it. When they don’t people feel that even faster.

And as always, Rona and Jeffrey don’t just talk about what’s right and wrong in business, they demonstrate it live complete with quick pivots, playful tension, and the occasional “Wait… what did you just say?”

Other Biz-Souls Episodes You’ll Enjoy:

Episode 204: The Great Exhaustion

• https://open.spotify.com/show/bizsouls-episode-204

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bizsouls204

Episode 203: Hypocrisy Hunted Hilariously

• https://open.spotify.com/show/bizsouls-episode-203

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bizsouls203

Episode 202: Persuasion, Negotiation & Sales in a Chaotic World

• https://open.spotify.com/show/bizsouls-episode-202

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bizsouls202

Episode 201: Critical Thinking Collapse

• https://open.spotify.com/show/bizsouls-episode-201

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bizsouls201

If you’ve ever sat through a leadership meeting where “transparency” felt foggy or heard a CEO say “people first” while cutting development budgets or watched someone deny something their eyebrows already confessed, this episode is for you.

Jump in. Follow. Subscribe. Become part of the Biz-Souls family — where congruency isn’t just discussed… It’s practiced (most of the time).

Welcome to The Great Exhaustion. No, not a new Netflix docuseries, just your life… and ours!

Biz-Souls’ dynamic duo Rona Lewis and Jeffrey Hansler pull up a couple of chairs, rub their temples, and talk candidly about the bone-deep fatigue that seems to have settled over… well, everyone.

Change fatigue. Decision fatigue. “Another email?” fatigue.

You’re exhausted. We’re exhausted. The whole room is exhausted. Hey, are we borrowing lines from Rocky Horror?

But this isn’t just whining into the void.

Rona and Jeffrey unpack why people are so depleted right now — emotionally, mentally, and professionally — and what happens when constant uncertainty, nonstop change, and low-grade anxiety become the background noise of work and life.

They explore:

• Recognizing that exhaustion isn’t a personal failure, it’s a signal

• How stress quietly rewires our habits, reactions, and relationships

• The difference between being “busy” and being burned out

• Why powering through is no longer a strategy — it’s a warning sign

This episode isn’t about fixing everything. It’s about fixing what you can and planning for a healthier future.

If you’ve been feeling worn down, stretched thin, or quietly asking, “Is it just me?” — it’s not. And you’re very much among friends.

Pull up a chair. Take a breath. Welcome to The Great Exhaustion.