In late February, Nicholas Bagley and Robert Gordon, who have both had extensive careers in Democratic governance – Nicholas was Chief Legal Counsel for Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer until 2022, Robert most recently served as a Deputy Assistant to the President on the Domestic Policy Council of the Biden White House – went where few left-of-center commentators have been willing to go: they directly called out what they see as the excessive influence of public sector unions.

Those deep-pocketed unions are, of course, one of the major power centers within the Democratic Party, which may explain why even reform-minded commentators on the left, like the Abundance faction, have been noticeably reluctant to scrutinize their influence over governance in blue jurisdictions. But in a much discussed New York Times op ed titled, “Mamdani Will Need to Change How he Governs,” Bagley and Gordon broke ranks.

“If blue-state governors and mayors want to get serious about delivering excellent public services, they will need to do more than battle billionaire elites or embrace abundant housing and energy,” they wrote. “They will have to push back against a core constituency within the Democratic Party that often makes government deliver less and cost more: unions representing teachers, police officers and transit workers.”

So we invited Nicholas, currently a law professor at the University of Michigan, and Robert, now a visiting fellow at Harvard, to delve into why they think public sector unions have too often become an impediment to effective Democratic governance, particularly in big blue cities like New York or Seattle. Over the course of our conversation, they argue that while public sector unions play a crucial role in advocating for their members, they can also hinder progress by prioritizing generous pay, pensions and seniority over efficiency, accountability, and results.

They cite examples like Chicago's severe fiscal strain due to unaffordably generous pension benefits doled out to public sector workers, and we also get into the impact of police and teachers unions on efforts to reform policing and public education. We discuss the outsized role these unions play in electing Democratic politicians, and Bagley and Gordon emphasize the need for Democratic leaders to push back against unions in instances where they stand as an impediment to delivering better public services and governance.

“We wrote this piece because we think it’s important, if we want blue cities to achieve their promise, and if we want to have a viable and effective alternative to what the Trump administration is giving us, this is a conversation we need to have,” Bagley told us.

Our editor is Quinn Waller.

OUTSIDE SOURCES:

Nicholas Bagley and Robert Gordon, “Mamdani Will Need to Change How He Governs,” New York Times, Feb. 23, 2026.

Seattle Nice podcast: “Mayor Elect Katie Wilson says Seattle Nice is ‘Special,’” Nov. 20, 2025.

Please send your feedback, guest and show ideas to bluecitypodcast@gmail.com

Support the show

Eboo Patel, an Ismaili Muslim, is the founder and president of Interfaith America, a Chicago-based non-profit that works to promote pluralism and foster cooperation across differences of religion. He is a fierce advocate for diversity - "America is a diversity project," he contends - and for the importance of identity to our conception of self. And yet he is also a sharp critic of DEI regimes as they are typically practiced on college campuses or within other culturally progressive institutions.

For our latest episode, at the invite of Seattle University President Eduardo Peñalver and as part of his excellent Presidential Speaker Series, we spoke with Eboo Patel live on the Seattle U campus. In the conversation, we asked Eboo to explain why he believes a conception of diversity rooted in pluralism will serve Americans better than one rooted in identitarian and anti-racist precepts.

"I dislike anti-racism as a paradigm. I detest it as a regime. I find it interesting as a critique," Patel told us. "But any point of view that insists on separating people into two categories - racist and anti-racist - is going to get itself into trouble very fast." Instead, he argues that pluralism, which he defines as five interconnected beliefs -- 1. Diversity is a treasure. 2. Identity is a source of pride, not a status of victimization. 3. Faith is a bridge, 4. Cooperation is better than division and 5. Everybody is a contributor - is a better foundation on which to understand the importance of American diversity. And the idea of pluralism, particularly religious pluralism, he adds. goes back to the founding fathers and the beginnings of the American republic.

As we get deeper into the conversation, we also talk to Eboo about why he sees American as a "potluck" and not a "melting plot," and why he doesn't think colorblindness works as a goal finding common ground across identity divides.

Our editor is Quinn Waller and this episode was produced by Jennie Cecil Moore.

OUTSIDE REFERENCES:

Eboo Patel, Sacred Ground: Pluralism, Prejudice and the Promise of America, Beacon Press (2012).

Eboo Patel, "Teach Pluralism, Not Anti-Racism," Persuasion, April 6, 2025.

Eboo Patel, "A Pedagogy of the Empowered," Persuasion, May 26, 2025.

Please send your feedback, guest and show ideas to bluecitypodcast@gmail.com

Support the show

In the 1970s, as a young left wing activist seeking to upend capitalism, Karen Bass was a leader in the Venceremos Brigade, an organization that sends Americans to Cuba in support of the Cuban revolution. From those outsider beginnings Bass went on to become a progressive Speaker of the California State Assembly, and then chair of the Congressional Black Caucus in Congress, before defeating law-and-order former Republican mall developer Rick Caruso in 2022 to become Los Angeles’ 43rd mayor.

In other words, the 72 year-old Bass, once a young radical, is now a leading light within California’s progressive power structure. But she’s also reeling politically – with a job approval rating barely above Trump’s in deep blue LA – in the lingering aftermath of the devastating Jan. 2025 Palisades fire that consumed more than 6,800 structures and raised widespread doubts about the competence of LA’s municipal governance.

Which makes LA’s politics very interesting all of a sudden. As a beleaguered incumbent, Bass now finds herself fighting for her political life against a surprise challenger from her left. On the last day of candidate filing, an ostensible Bass ally on the Council, Nithya Raman, 44, a smart, former urban planner with ties to the Democratic Socialists of America, shocked LA’s political class by jumping into the race.

The Democratic establishment has loudly rallied to Bass’ defense, denouncing Raman as a disloyal backstabber. But do the voters see things the same way? Or is Raman poised to be the next Zohran Mamdani or Katie Wilson, the democratic socialist insurgents who defied expectations to get elected mayors of NYC and Seattle last November?

For answers we turn to Melanie Mason, Politico’s California Bureau Chief and co-author of their California Playbook. Melanie has written vividly and revealingly about Bass’ mayoralty and about Raman’s dramatic entry into the race, and we dive in with her to understand better the contours of LA’s currently roiled politics. Mason offers her insights about Bass’ first-up-then-down tenure, why Raman’s last minute move to throw her hat in the ring is see as such a betrayal by LA political insiders, how much of a Mamdani analogue Raman actually is, what her chances are of overthrowing Bass, and what this all means for the politics of one of the country’s largest and most prominent blue cities.

Our editor is Quinn Waller.

Please send your feedback, guest and show ideas to bluecitypodcast@gmail.com

Support the show