Dr. Megan Rundel on Expanded States of Consciousness

In this episode, we speak with clinical psychologist, psychoanalyst, and Zen teacher Dr. Megan Rundel about her work at the intersection of psychoanalysis, psychedelics, and spirituality. Drawing on her recent paper “Expansion and Regression in Oceanic Experience: A Model of Psychedelic Consciousness for Psychoanalysis,” Dr. Megan explores how psychedelic states and psychoanalytic treatment approach psychological terrain in ways that are both contrasting and complementary. The conversation examines how psychedelic experiences can disrupt entrenched psychological patterns—often linked to the brain’s default mode network—while psychoanalysis provides the slower, relational framework needed to understand and integrate those experiences. Dr. Megan also discusses the role of the unconscious, transference, and ethical “frame” in psychedelic work, and argues that psychoanalytic thinking can deepen the field beyond its current short-term clinical models. Finally, the discussion turns toward expansive states of consciousness often described as mystical or oceanic—experiences of interconnectedness, ego expansion, and love—and how psychoanalysis might develop a richer language for understanding them. Episode Links: - Dr. Megan Rundel's article Expansion and Regression in Oceanic Experience https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10481885.2025.2574581 - Learn more about Dr. Megan Rundel on her website: https://www.drmeganrundel.com/