Thom’s Nutshell:

Rigorous honesty begins at home.

Joe C. joins us to discuss the ways relapse is experienced by the loved ones of the relapser, and how we can think about these distressing events differently. The universe isn’t guided by structure and order alone. There’s chaos as well. We have influence, but not control, and with emotional sobriety we can more clearly see that distinction.

Thank you for listening to our podcast. Our music is provided by the great southern artist Jefferson Ross. Learn more about Jefferson at jeffersonross.com

Visit our website:

www.emotionalsobriety.info

Follow us on social media:

Instagram: thomrutledge2

Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs

Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here:

https://rebelliondogspublishing.com

Friendly Circle Berlin workshops: https://friendlycircleberlin.org/events

Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/

Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):

https://zoom.us/j/330149513

Password: 375986

For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g

Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519

We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.

We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at pndirective4@gmail.com for any questions or comments.

• (00:00:00) - Emotional Sobriety
• (00:06:56) - In the Elevator With George Clooney
• (00:07:58) - What is Truth in Sobriety?
• (00:11:49) - Risk of Absurdity
• (00:14:56) - In the Elevator With an Alcoholic
• (00:17:17) - Al Anon on Rejection and Recovery
• (00:26:12) - Sam and Joe: Emotional Sobriety

Thom’s Nutshell:

“You cannot work both sides of the serenity prayer. Choose. Commit.”

Emotional sobriety is about moving forward. The key to unlocking long term recovery is learning to support ourselves internally by organizing our experience to deal with the struggle. To move through and out of relapse, we can’t collapse into a pile of “shoulds.” Relapse occurs for addicts when they haven’t accepted at an unconscious level that they are powerless. In acceptance we begin to take back our power.

Our love and prayers go out to all victims of the wars raging across the entire world.

Visit our website:

www.emotionalsobriety.info

Follow us on social media:

Instagram: thomrutledge2

Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs

Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here:

https://rebelliondogspublishing.com

Friendly Circle Berlin workshops: https://friendlycircleberlin.org/events

Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/

Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):

https://zoom.us/j/330149513

Password: 375986

For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g

Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519

We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.

We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at pndirective4@gmail.com for any questions or comments.

• (00:00:00) - Working the Serenity Prayer: The Next Step in Recovery
• (00:04:32) - A Couple's Humility in Recovery
• (00:09:44) - "Self-Esteem Is Not an All or None"
• (00:11:13) - How to Talk to Someone Who Relapsed
• (00:15:33) - The Recovery Decision
• (00:20:02) - What's the Cause of Early Recovery?
• (00:22:38) - Tom: Self-Love
• (00:28:03) - A shout out to our military personnel

Thom’s Nutshell Wisdom:

“Practice conversations to convey rather than convince.”

Healthy Conversation is “present-centered.” In a healthy conversation, we don’t need to know exactly what we’re trying to convey. With defenses down, we learn more. How much “we,” and how much “I” can we include in any relationship? How can we get on the same side of the problem?

Anxiety is at the root of why we do this. We feel threatened so we feel a compulsion to manipulate someone into our point of view. The first step of dismantling this is awareness that its happening. Then we “befriend our experience,” which we derive from the work of Nathaniel Branden.

Visit our website:

www.emotionalsobriety.info

Follow us on social media:

Instagram: thomrutledge2

Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs

Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here:

https://rebelliondogspublishing.com

Friendly Circle Berlin workshops: https://friendlycircleberlin.org/events

Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/

Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):

https://zoom.us/j/330149513

Password: 375986

For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g

Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519

We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.

We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at pndirective4@gmail.com for any questions or comments.

• (00:00:00) - Talking to Yourself
• (00:03:54) - John Ammodeo on Self-Acceptance
• (00:08:17) - Talking to Your Partner
• (00:12:03) - Getting On the Same Side of the Problem
• (00:18:20) - The Importance of Negotiation in a Mixed Relationship
• (00:21:10) - Tom Petty on His Relationship With Deedee
• (00:24:13) - I Had A Complaint About My AA Friend

Former guest and longtime friend John Amodeo joins Allen and Thom to advocate “gentle presence” 9 making ourselves available to the full range of what we’re experiencing in the moment, whether pleasure and pain. People are afraid of their emotions - “If I start crying, when will I stop?” The greater danger, in our experience, is the suppression of emotion. We also touch on processing failure and mistakes, cautioning against blame. When we get stuck in blame, we don’t learn and grow from our experiences.

Buy John’s new book, The Power of Gentle Presence: Insights for Inner Peace & Deeper Relationships here:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0G1HLNFV5

Visit our website:

www.emotionalsobriety.info

Follow us on social media:

Instagram: thomrutledge2

Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs

Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here:

https://rebelliondogspublishing.com

Friendly Circle Berlin workshops: https://friendlycircleberlin.org/events

Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/

Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):

https://zoom.us/j/330149513

Password: 375986

For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g

Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519

We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.

We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at pndirective4@gmail.com for any questions or comments.

• (00:00:07) - Emotional Sobriety with Dr. John Ammodeo
• (00:01:21) - John Feist in Personal Growth
• (00:06:42) - Exploring Boundaries
• (00:11:32) - Boundaries of Personal Experience
• (00:15:33) - John on Self-Acceptance
• (00:20:36) - What is Healthy Shame?
• (00:21:47) - The Importance of Gentle Presence
• (00:26:31) - Goodbye, Emotional Sobriety
• (00:27:33) - John and Alan on The Three Pillars of Love
• (00:32:01) - Emotional Sobriety and Relationships

Thom checks back in after a long period of freezing weather and system crash in Tennessee, Allen gets honest after recent familial struggles. What makes it difficult for us to own our bad behavior? This week is emotional sobriety through fear and wreckage, demanding cleanup.

Thom's Nutshell:

Can you describe how you think as well as you can describe what you think?"

"In The Daily Stoic, Ryan Holiday offers a question that is simple and profound: "Am I in control of this or is this anxiety?" - anxiety being the tell-tale sign that we feel the need to control what we cannot.

When I am experiencing anxiety, then I am wasting valuable energy focusing on what I do not and cannot control. Once I recognize that I am doing this, I shift all of my focus on levitating that chair h with my mind.

This is a good example of focusing on PROCESS rather than CONTENT. Focusing on HOW I am thinking rather than WHAT I am thinking.

These kinds of changes must be radical in order to be effective. You know, simple but far from easy. (And if you move the chair, please let me know.)

Follow us on social media.

Instagram: thomrutledge2

Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs

Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here:

https://rebelliondogspublishing.com

Friendly Circle Berlin workshops: https://friendlycircleberlin.org/events

Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/

Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):

https://zoom.us/j/330149513

Password: 375986

For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g

Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519

We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.

We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at pndirective4@gmail.com for any questions or comments.

Thom’s Nutshell: "How much of what you believe do you really believe?"

Allen and Patrick review a recent Slate article about Emotional Sobriety and push back on some of its premises. Emotional Sobriety isn’t just about taking care of ourselves, it’s about dismantling expectations and developing an entirely new way of living. It offers not just inner peace, but true freedom.

The article: “I Quit Drinking. It’s Great. There’s Just One Small Problem.”

https://slate.com/advice/2025/08/drinking-alcoholism-emotional-sobriety-dry-drunk-advice.html

Follow us on social media.

Instagram: thomrutledge2

Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs

Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here:

https://rebelliondogspublishing.com

Friendly Circle Berlin workshops: https://friendlycircleberlin.org/events

Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/

Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):

https://zoom.us/j/330149513

Password: 375986

For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g

Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519

We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.

We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at pndirective4@gmail.com for any questions or comments.

On clarity, which comes with emotional sobriety: an antidote to impulsivity, rumination, indecision and procrastination.

Thom’s nutshell wisdom:

Your ego has one value system, your spirit another. Beware of identifying with one and acting from the other. We all experience this. It is the source of our deepest hypocrisy.

This is the human struggle: personally and globally.

Our hearts go out to the people of Minneapolis.

Follow us on social media.

Instagram: thomrutledge2

Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs

Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here:

https://rebelliondogspublishing.com

Friendly Circle Berlin workshops: https://friendlycircleberlin.org/events

Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/

Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):

https://zoom.us/j/330149513

Password: 375986

For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g

Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519

We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.

We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at pndirective4@gmail.com for any questions or comments.

"I didn't have a choice."

You're selling yourself short. Or you mean, the choice seemed obvious to you. But still, you made the choice.

Or - you are making an excuse, ducking responsibility, for a poor choice that you made.

Because...

We always have choices.

Even not making a choice is a choice.

Follow us on social media.

Instagram: thomrutledge2

Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs

Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here:

https://rebelliondogspublishing.com

Friendly Circle Berlin workshops: https://friendlycircleberlin.org/events

Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/

Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):

https://zoom.us/j/330149513

Password: 375986

For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g

Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519

We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.

We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at pndirective4@gmail.com for any questions or comments.