Growing an Indie Brand with David Hankins

David Hankins and I have been writing short stories and learning the industry together for several years. He’s helped me when I’ve gotten stuck with my Writers of the Future entries. (like, why are they rejecting me?!) Authorial note— he took a story from rejected to Silver Honorable Mention.I’ve been watching him sell multiple short stories, run Kickstarters, and self-publish two fun novels with avid admiration.David has been an inspiration as I forge my own path through the many ways writers find success. He’s not afraid to try new things while always coming across as a professional.I interviewed him when he first won several years ago, and he read one of his shorts!This is his second time on the podcast, and feel free to check out his books and learn more about him, here: https://davidhankins.comAngelique: You seem to have a real method to your madness. When it comes to indie publishing, what have you found works?David: Really the way I tend to do things is I find the people who have done very well, and then I mimic what they do because clearly it worked for them. Then I see if I can do what they did in order to reach the next level. With publishing and writing books, I took a look at some of the big names who moved from traditional publishing over to primarily indie, like Dean Wesley Smith and Kevin J. Anderson. Dean gave us a class on the history of publishing, and it really came down to publishing changing dramatically about every fifty years. Right now we’re in the middle of one of those changes. Once he did that analysis, he moved straight over to what was new and where that was going, and I said, all right, I’m going to do the same thing.Angelique: I love that. So when you decided to publish Death and the Tax Man, why did Kickstarter make sense to you?David: Dean Wesley Smith has done a bunch of Kickstarters, and a bunch of others I had followed had done Kickstarters, and I was like, all right, I’m going to launch my first book with a Kickstarter, which was a smashing success. My profit was between thirty and fifty percent. That Kickstarter made about eight thousand dollars, so I made a profit of three to four. Which is great because that means I started in the green.Angelique: That’s amazing. And for anyone nervous about trying Kickstarter, what do you think the real risk is?David: The worst that happens is it doesn’t fund and you’re out nothing but time. But if you do the things that you have seen work, and you’ve observed other people, just mimic what they’ve done. Look at people who have run that kind of Kickstarter. For nonfiction especially, you’re trying to hook people in a different way than you would for a novel. It’s not the adventure, the mystery. It’s, here, learn how to do the thing.Angelique: What’s one of the biggest things you’ve learned so far from indie publishing your trilogy?David: I learned that there are lots of different audience pools out there. Kickstarter is its own pool of readers. The people who are supporting me on Kickstarter are not necessarily the people who are finding me on Amazon, because they do their book shopping on Kickstarter. There’s some crossover, but the growth that I had in Kickstarter did not translate over into Amazon reviews.Angelique: That’s so interesting. What did that teach you about reviews and momentum?David: One of the things that I was always hesitant on and didn’t really do was giving away copies to get reviews. A friend of mine is rapid releasing an urban fantasy series, and she’s doing ARC copies and giving away the free books. I was like, I just had people pay for it on Kickstarter. But it’s a totally different audience. They never would’ve found me on Kickstarter, and my Kickstarter people aren’t the ones who are going over there looking for ARC books to read and review.Angelique: So are you wide, or are you in KU?David: I’ve gone wide, and I’ve loved being wide. I can sell through my website, and I’ve actually sold more through my website and through direct sales, like me going to conventions and fairs and stuff like that. That’s where I made most of my money last year. If I were in KU, I couldn’t sell on my own website.Angelique: That direct sales piece is really interesting. What do you use to power that side of things?David: My sales engine is Square. They have a storefront, which is very basic. Here’s your book, book, book, price, click, buy. And that’s all I need. It integrates via links, so I have my book cover on my website and say, click here for my shop. I use Square because I started with them for in-person sales, because they’re very, very easy for in-person sales. I wanted something that integrated all the same stuff. I wouldn’t have to maintain two different tracking systems. If I sell out of a book in person, then it shows on my website as not available.Angelique: Since you’ve had success with in-person sales, what have you found makes the biggest ...