In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh Hugo and John Clark explore one of the most defining — and uncomfortable — realities of leadership: ambiguity. Framed by a listener suggestion and grounded in real-world leadership experiences, the conversation centers on what it actually means to lead when clarity is limited, direction is evolving, and certainty is out of reach.

Rather than treating ambiguity as a problem to solve, Josh and John position it as the environment in which leadership truly exists. Whether it’s navigating shifting priorities, incomplete information, competing perspectives, or unclear ownership, ambiguity is not a failure of leadership — it is the condition that requires it.

The episode breaks down different forms of ambiguity, from moments where there is genuinely no clear answer to situations where competing voices are equally confident in different paths forward. The discussion highlights how leaders often unintentionally increase ambiguity through lack of clarity, shifting principles, or avoidance of difficult decisions.

A key tension explored is the emotional and psychological weight of ambiguity. Leaders are not only managing uncertainty themselves, but also absorbing and translating that uncertainty for their teams. This creates a layered challenge, particularly for middle managers who sit between executive decisions and frontline realities.

Josh and John introduce the Stockdale Paradox as a powerful framing tool — the ability to acknowledge the full difficulty of a situation while maintaining confidence that a path forward exists. This balance becomes essential for leaders trying to communicate honestly without creating panic.

Ultimately, the episode reinforces a core idea: ambiguity cannot be eliminated, but it can be named, understood, and navigated with intention. Leadership is less about providing answers and more about guiding people through the space between not knowing and moving forward anyway.

00:00 – Opening and Framing the Conversation on Ambiguity Introduction to the topic and listener inspiration.

05:00 – What Is Ambiguity in Leadership? Defining ambiguity and exploring real-world examples.

10:00 – When Certainty Creates Ambiguity How competing confident perspectives create complexity.

15:00 – Why Ambiguity Shows Up in Leadership Change, incomplete information, and the nature of decision-making.

20:00 – The Role of Leadership in Uncertainty Why ambiguity is the condition that requires leadership.

25:00 – The Middle Manager Challenge Navigating ambiguity both from above and below.

30:00 – Leading Others Through Ambiguity Balancing honesty, confidence, and emotional stability.

35:00 – The Stockdale Paradox and Naming Reality Holding tension between difficulty and hope.

40:00 – Closing Reflections and Homework Preparing for deeper strategies in the next episode.

Ambiguity is not a leadership failure; it is the environment where leadership is required.

Leaders often increase ambiguity by avoiding clarity, ownership, or difficult decisions.

Uncertainty exists both in the absence of information and in the presence of competing certainty.

Middle managers experience amplified ambiguity as it flows through the organization.

Effective leadership requires acknowledging uncertainty without creating instability.

The ability to hold tension — difficulty and hope at the same time — is a core leadership skill.

Naming ambiguity is the first step to navigating it.

Pause and identify where you are currently experiencing ambiguity in your leadership or work. Name it directly. Instead of trying to immediately solve it, sit with it and recognize the tension between what you know and what you don’t. Consider how that ambiguity is impacting your decisions, your communication, and your team. Awareness is the first step toward leading through it.

The Stockdale Paradox Bill Kurtz Substack on leadership and courage Brené Brown concept of “name it to tame it”

In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh Hugo and John Clark sit down with David Boelens, leader of the Integrated Talent Development organization at Raytheon, to explore what it really takes to develop leaders at scale. Drawing on his experience as a U.S. Army cavalry officer and now as a leader responsible for developing thousands of professionals in operations, supply chain, and quality roles, David shares lessons about leadership that translate across both military and corporate environments.

The conversation begins with David reflecting on his early leadership experiences in the Army, including platoon leadership during a deployment to Iraq. Those experiences shaped a philosophy that still guides his leadership today: you cannot afford not to invest deeply in developing people. Leaders must be willing to allow learning, mistakes, and growth because the lessons gained in lower-risk moments often become critical later.

From there, the discussion shifts into leadership development inside large organizations. David introduces the concept of leader intent, a military principle that focuses less on dictating every step and more on clearly defining the outcome and the purpose behind it. When people understand the “why” behind the mission, they can adapt, take initiative, and solve problems without waiting for direction.

David also shares how his team approaches talent development systems inside a large organization. Effective development programs must balance three priorities: they must be personal, scalable, and sustainable. Programs often fail when leaders optimize them for administrators rather than the people and managers who must interact with them.

The conversation closes with practical insights on developing early-career leaders. One of the most common challenges David sees is hesitation to speak up or contribute ideas. Strong leadership development creates safe opportunities for people to practice initiative—whether through networking, experiential learning, or ownership of their own development path.

Throughout the episode, the central message remains consistent: great leadership development is not about controlling outcomes or handing people the answers. It is about creating environments where people take ownership, develop confidence, and grow their leadership muscles through real responsibility.

00:00 – Opening Banter and Introducing David Boelens Josh and John introduce the episode and welcome David, leader of Raytheon’s Integrated Talent Development organization.

05:00 – Military Leadership and the Reality of Learning Through Experience David reflects on leading soldiers early in his career and how real-world responsibility shapes leadership.

12:00 – Lessons from Combat Leadership A story about initiative and learning under pressure illustrates how small leadership lessons become critical later.

20:00 – Leader Intent: A Military Principle for Modern Leadership Why defining the outcome and purpose is more powerful than micromanaging execution.

28:00 – Building Talent Development Systems at Scale Balancing personal development with scalable and sustainable learning systems.

36:00 – Ownership vs. Spoon-Feeding Development Why leaders must resist solving every problem and instead require people to own their growth.

44:00 – Developing Early Career Leaders Helping younger professionals find their voice and confidence to contribute.

47:00 – Leadership Inspiration and Final Reflections David shares leadership influences including Colin Powell and Abraham Lincoln.

Leadership development requires investing deeply in people long before the stakes are high.

Clear leader intent enables initiative and adaptability instead of dependence.

Development systems must balance personal relevance with scalability and sustainability.

Ownership is a critical leadership muscle and must be practiced, not taught theoretically.

Early career leaders often need encouragement and structure to speak up and contribute.

Great leaders create environments where people can practice initiative safely.

Leadership growth happens through experience, responsibility, and reflection.

Where in your leadership are you unintentionally taking ownership away from others? Identify one area this week where you can clarify the outcome you want while leaving space for your team to determine how to achieve it. Leadership development grows when responsibility shifts from the leader to the people being developed.

In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh and John build on recent conversations about presence, influence, and accountability by introducing a powerful leadership contrast from Liz Wiseman’s book Multipliers: the difference between Multipliers and Diminishers.

While overtly destructive leadership behaviors are easy to spot, this conversation focuses on something more subtle — the Accidental Diminisher. These are leaders with good intentions who unknowingly over-function, over-direct, over-protect, or over-communicate in ways that limit their team’s ownership and growth.

The episode begins by grounding listeners in the concept of over-functioning — stepping in too quickly, solving too much, and unintentionally creating dependency. From there, Josh and John walk through nine accidental diminisher tendencies, including the Rescuer, Idea Fountain, Rapid Responder, Optimist, Strategist, Perfectionist, Protector, Pace Setter, and Always On leader.

Rather than shaming these tendencies, the conversation reframes them as anxiety-driven postures that often show up under pressure. When stress rises, leaders default to familiar patterns — rescuing instead of empowering, answering instead of asking, pushing pace instead of developing capacity.

The through-line is clear: leadership is not about doing more. It is about multiplying others. When leaders dominate space, control outcomes, or protect too much, they unintentionally shrink the very people they are meant to develop.

This episode invites middle managers to examine their own default tendencies and make intentional adjustments that create more ownership, more debate, and more growth across their teams.

00:00 – Coffee Mugs and Reconnecting to Presence Light opening before transitioning back to leadership themes.

05:00 – Introducing Multipliers vs. Diminishers The core framework from Liz Wiseman’s research.

08:30 – Over-Functioning Explained Why leaders do too much and how it creates dependency.

12:30 – The Rescuer, Idea Fountain, and Rapid Responder How good intentions quietly limit team ownership.

22:00 – The Optimist and Strategist When positivity and certainty suppress debate and innovation.

27:00 – The Perfectionist and Protector High standards and shielding behaviors that discourage growth.

32:00 – Pace Setter and Always On Leadership How intensity and presence can crowd out others.

36:00 – Homework and Reflection Identifying your dominant accidental diminisher tendency.

Most diminishing leadership habits stem from good intentions, not bad motives.

Over-functioning creates under-functioning in others.

Rescuing, over-responding, or over-directing may feel helpful but often reduce ownership.

High standards are healthy; perfectionism that removes autonomy is not.

Moving fast is not the same as developing others.

Multiplying leadership requires space, patience, and disciplined restraint.

Under pressure, your default tendencies are amplified — awareness is essential.

Identify which of the nine accidental diminisher tendencies resonates most with you. Be honest. Notice when it shows up — especially under stress or urgency. Then choose one small behavioral adjustment to practice this week. You might wait before responding, speak last in a meeting, resist rescuing, or invite debate before deciding.

Leadership multiplication begins not by adding more techniques, but by subtracting habits that shrink others.

Multipliers by Liz Wiseman The Wiseman Group (wisemangroup.com)