Episodes

  • APMM Series: What Happens When a Community Wants to Change its Local Government?

    APMM Series: What Happens When a Community Wants to Change its Local Government?
    Mar 25 2026
    Structural change in local government is rare. Therefore, we don’t often get the opportunity to learn how it works.My three guests today, Jerry Andree, Toby Cordek, and Michael Foreman were invited to work with a group of engaged citizens in Millcreek Township, Erie County to shepard a community making its third attempt in fifteen years to restructure their local government.Millcreek is one of the largest second-class townships in Pennsylvania with nearly 55,000 residents, a sophisticated range of services, and all the complexity that comes with governing a community that size. Yet for decades, it has been run by three elected supervisors who, at their first meeting after each election, appoint themselves as the township’s full-time municipal administrators. This does not provide for a separation of powers between the people who set policy and the people who carry it out and creates a vacuum in the continuity of services.This episode is in many respects a rare master class in how to form a study commission and carry a recommendation through to the voters. But more importantly, it’s a frank, insider conversation about the dynamics behind the scenes, including the interviews, the resistance, the attacks, and what it takes to stay focused and transparent when the process gets hard.This podcast episode has been created in partnership with APMM, the association for professional municipal managers to enhance learning, leadership development and networking.Jerry Andree spent three decades as Township Manager of Cranberry Township in Butler County Pennsylvania and has been a steady presence in local government leadership across Pennsylvania. Even in retirement, he continues to teach, advise, and support communities working through complex challenges.Toby Cordek served more than 35 years as Town Manager of McCandless in Allegheny County and has worked across nearly every aspect of local government. Today, he continues to mentor leaders and support municipalities through consulting and executive search work.Michael Foreman brings over 30 years of experience with the Pennsylvania Department of Community and Economic Development, where he advised municipalities on policy, finance, and operations. He now continues that work as a consultant supporting local governments across the region.Be sure to follow PCC Local Time on your favorite player and subscribe to MuniSquare.Substack.com for more in-depth content on local government.🎧 Episode Timestamps00:00 – Opening: Why this story mattersNancy frames the rarity of structural change in local government and introduces Millcreek as a “third attempt” story with real stakes.01:30 – Guest introductionsJerry Andree, Toby Cordek, and Michael Foreman are introduced with their backgrounds and roles.03:00 – What makes Millcreek differentThree-member board of supervisors acting as full-time administrators—an unusual structure for a township of this size.05:30 – The core problem emergesLack of professional management; solicitor acting as de facto manager; growing complexity of the township.07:45 – Why residents pushed for changeBlended roles (legislative, executive, administrative) and growing disconnect between governance and community expectations.09:00 – Public access and transparency issuesMeeting times and structure raise questions about accessibility and responsiveness to residents.10:30 – Clarifying the real issueNot about removing elected officials—but clarifying roles and introducing professional management.12:00 – How a study commission worksMichael walks through the legal process: ballot question, election, structure, and responsibilities.15:00 – Inside the research processInterviews with department heads, supervisors, and comparisons with other townships.17:00 – Why council-manager emerged as the best fitSeparation of powers, stability, and professional administration.19:00 – What the interviews revealedLack of continuity, shifting oversight, and absence of administrative expertise.21:00 – A “vacuum of continuity”Toby reflects on what was felt inside the organization—competence present, but no administrative anchor.22:30 – Resistance from leadershipSupervisors not supportive; difficult environment for employees and interviews.23:30 – The decision point: vote for changeStudy commission evaluates options and moves toward a council-manager model.27:00 – Voter approval and timeline to 2028Final report, public hearing, and decisive vote; transition period begins.28:00 – The “secret sauce” beginsShift from structure to human dynamics—how the commission actually worked together.29:00 – Building trust and momentumEarly meetings, “symbiosis,” and a nurturing leadership approach.31:00 – Organizing the commission like a governing bodyCommittees form; members begin practicing how a council operates.32:30 – Facing attacks and staying groundedPublic criticism, accusations, and the discipline to “keep the high ...
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    56 mins
  • Finding Your Place: Why Boroughs Demand Everything. A conversation with Maggie Dobbs

    Finding Your Place: Why Boroughs Demand Everything. A conversation with Maggie Dobbs
    Feb 24 2026

    Maggie Dobbs is a trained city planner (Rutgers) who spent a decade writing comprehensive plans across Montgomery County before stepping into her current role as Borough Manager of Narberth, Pennsylvania, a half-square-mile community tucked inside Lower Merion Township just outside of Philadelphia. She arrived after a period of leadership turnover. What she found was not a small job. It was a dense one.

    Host Brandon Ford and co-host Nancy Hess have a wide ranging conversation with Maggie that moves through the real experience of borough management: the math of running a full municipal government — police, public works, library, eleven miles of road — with fifteen people and a fraction of a township’s budget; the intimacy that makes boroughs special and the same intimacy that makes criticism land close to the heart; and the reality that wearing every hat in the building demands more knowledge, not less, than specializing in a larger organization.

    Maggie is candid about walking into a community that had cycled through five managers in four years, what it took to steady that ship, and why her focus is on building standard operating procedures so the day-to-day can run itself. Along the way, the crew explores Narberth’s housing story — how a historically working-class rail town became the highest median sales price in Montgomery County — and what that shift means for a community once referred to as “Mayberry,” still sorting out who it is.

    MuniSquare is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support our work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.


    “My job gets in the way of me doing my job.”— Maggie Dobbs — on the borough manager’s capacity problem“Your hats are wearing hats. It’s a lot.”— Maggie Dobbs — on generalist demands in a small-staff borough
    "If I had a campaign slogan, it would be policy and procedure. My big push has been standard operating procedures. I want to think less about the day-to-day. I want the day-to-day to essentially run itself because we've already figured it out. I don't want to have to answer questions I've answered again." — Maggie Dobbs, on her first-year management strategy

    🔥 Hot Takes

    Five Realities Before You Take the Seat

    1. Your job will crowd out your job. Protect space for strategic work.
    2. SOPs are not paperwork. They are oxygen.
    3. Fill your blind spots early. Pride is expensive.
    4. Proactive information reduces political friction.
    5. Borough leadership is not smaller. It’s closer.

    Timestamps

    0:00 – Introducing Maggie and Narberth

    1:18 – The “donut hole” geography inside Lower Merion

    2:09 – Maggie’s path: NJ Dept. of Agriculture → Rutgers → Planning

    3:30 – Montgomery County Planning Commission & contract planning model

    5:49 – Writing four comprehensive plans; interviewing...
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    56 mins
  • Free Agency in Local Government: A conversation with Brad Gotshall about protection, advocacy and reputation.

    Free Agency in Local Government: A conversation with Brad Gotshall about protection, advocacy and reputation.
    Feb 17 2026

    There is a polite fiction in local government that serving “at the pleasure of the governing body” rests securely on mutual trust. Often it does. Increasingly, it can feel more fragile.

    In today’s political climate, the employment relationship between elected officials and their chief administrative officer deserves a closer examination. What protections actually exist? Who advocates for the manager when circumstances shift?

    In this episode of Generation on the Rise, Eden Ratliff and Dave Pribulka sit down with Brad Gotshall to explore what it means to become, in his words, a “free agent.” They examine contracts and severance, and they also confront questions of reputation, professional identity, and the personal weight of transitions that can be political, strategic, or simply inevitable.

    MuniSquare is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support our work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.


    ⏱️ Timestamps
    1. 00:00 – Cold open, book banter, introductions
    2. 04:30 – Brad’s background: elected official at 17 to professional manager
    3. 09:30 – Transition to Warren County and “free agency”
    4. 11:30 – Protecting yourself as a manager: personal and professional buckets
    5. 13:30 – Contract negotiations: learning the hard way
    6. 16:00 – Do managers need representation?
    7. 19:00 – The loneliness of severance negotiations
    8. 22:00 – Lower Paxton: no contract, negotiated exit
    9. 26:00 – Recruiter’s role in negotiations
    10. 31:00 – Severance pushback and board dynamics
    11. 37:00 – Creative contract structures (Rehoboth example)
    12. 39:30 – Should managers use agents?
    13. 41:30 – Legal review vs. negotiation support
    14. 43:00 – Preserving reputation under NDAs
    15. 45:30 – Building a personal brand before crisis hits
    16. 48:00 – No-fault divorce vs. political dismissal
    17. 50:00 – Wrap-up and Part Two teaser
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    51 mins
  • Crisis as the New Normal - Management Under Pressure with Jeffrey Stonehill

    Crisis as the New Normal - Management Under Pressure with Jeffrey Stonehill
    Feb 11 2026

    Eden and Dave are joined by guest Jeffrey Stonehill, Borough Manager of Chambersburg Pennsylvania. They begin with an examination of how crises today differ from those Jeffrey encountered when he began in the field. Although they traverse the doom and gloom of dealing with crisis in the profession, they return to the core reasons they remain in the field.

    Contrasting generational perspectives and recognition of the vulnerability that comes with commitment and transitions make this episode a memorable one.

    Subscribe to MuniSquare on Substack for more content like this.

    “If everything is a crisis, nothing is.” - EdenYou have to have a little bit of self-confidence. I will find the place, I will find the role, I will find the journey. It's like the actor—the Broadway play closes, what do they do the next day? You need to have confidence that it will work itself out. - Jeffrey"There is a lightness of being after you're gone that almost hits as you're walking out the door. That's when I realized how much pressure I'd been under. That feeling is quickly replaced by this feeling of not being a part of something bigger than yourself anymore. When that ends, especially if it ends abruptly, it's a hard realization to wake up one morning and your calendar is empty." - Dave


    Hot Takes:


    🔥Crisis has always been part of the job. The pressure isn’t new — the speed is.

    🔥Not every issue deserves full emotional escalation.

    🔥Fire Suppression ≠ Fire Prevention. Be proactive.

    🔥 The communities you serve will continue without you—and that's okay.

    🔥Leaving a community requires a grieving process, even when it's your choice to leave.

    🔥The work is meaningful. Despite the pressure, leaders would not trade the experience.


    Timestamps

    00:00 - Cold open and greetings

    03:47 - Welcome and introduction to Generation on the Rise

    04:42 - Introducing first-time guest Jeffrey Stonehill

    06:32 - Jeffrey’s career journey: From SUNY grad to 40-year manager

    08:15 - The “crisis as normal” phenomenon in local government

    11:45 - Why municipalities attract constant crisis

    15:20 - The evolution of pressure: Then vs. now

    19:30 - Harrisburg bankruptcy and advisory board experience

    24:10 - The psychological toll of perpetual emergency management

    28:45 - Learning to disconnect (or trying to)

    33:20 - The loneliness of municipal management

    37:50 - Why managers struggle to share burdens

    42:15 - Transitioning between communities: The Disney tradition

    45:40 - The grieving process when you leave a community

    49:18 - Taking care of yourself and your family

    50:05 - Despite everything: Why we love this profession

    52:03 - Closing thoughts and next week’s preview
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    53 mins
  • Heavy Lies the Crown - The Managers Toughest Job

    Heavy Lies the Crown - The Managers Toughest Job
    Feb 4 2026

    Hey listeners, if you like video with your podcast, check out this episode on Spotify with the video feed included. Don't forget to hit the follow button. And subscribe to MuniSQuare where you will find more on the Pioneering Change Community channel.

    "We are all one elected official away from a hostile work environment.” - Dave

    “Yeah, but if it gets that bad, why would you stay?" - Eden

    Today on Generation on the Rise, what starts as tactical shop talk evolves into a revealing examination of professional isolation, with Dave pushing hard on systemic advocacy gaps while Eden counters with self-reliance pragmatism. By the end, they’re debating whether the profession’s recruitment crisis stems from lack of awareness or legitimate wariness about the job’s inherent instability.

    “Labor relations are high risk, high reward. When it goes bad, it goes bad fast.” - Brandon

    Hot Takes:
    1. Generational dynamics within unions have shifted bargaining leverage.
    2. Don’t wait until negotiation year to build trust.
    3. Personnel management is on-the-job training, no matter your preparation.
    4. Managers lack advocacy structures..
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    1 hr and 6 mins
  • Inform, Respect, Deliver: Local Government Managers in the Policy Arena

    Inform, Respect, Deliver: Local Government Managers in the Policy Arena
    Jan 16 2026

    In this kickoff-to-2026 episode of Generation on the Rise, hosts Dave Pribulka, Brandon Ford, and Eden Ratliff tackle the question: what is the real role of a municipal manager in forming local government policy?

    Generation on the Rise is produced by Nancy Hess (Publisher of MuniSquare) and features Eden Ratliff (Middletown Township Manager, Bucks County PA), Brandon Ford (Lower Merion Assistant Township Manager, Montgomery County PA, and Dave Pribulka (Bellefonte Borough Manager, Centre County PA)

    MuniSquare is a reader-supported publication. To subscribe to this feed, receive new posts and support our work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

    This is a great listen for anyone interested in the work of local government or just wants to understand how it really works. Be sure to leave your comments and questions for the crew to tackle in a future episode.

    “Our job is to inform the process, respect the outcome, and then deliver with enthusiasm.” - Eden

    “We took ‘leaf blower ban’ as a goal and did what staff does—we turned it into options, wrote the ordinance, and recommended a seasonal ban. The board said, ‘Thanks, but we want a full ban.’ And that’s democracy.” - Brandon

    “Sometimes the textbook says, ‘The board sets policy, the manager administers.’ The real work is everything in between—the translation, the conflict, the opportunity costs.” - Dave

    TIMESTAMPS:

    00:00 – New Year banter & Y2K

    03:30 – First-week-back routines & “Purge Day”

    06:30 – Reorganization meetings as the “real” New Year

    09:00 – Setting up the topic: managers and policy formation

    10:00 – Textbook council–manager model vs reality

    12:00 – How Eden reads and frames board policy priorities

    13:30 – Who really sets the agenda? Chair vs manager

    14:30 – Is capital equipment a policy question?

    16:00 – Municipal vs nonprofit vs corporate boards

    17:30 – Disagreeing with the board and processing it at home

    21:00 – Culture, roles, and “no big emotions” about policy

    24:00 – Translating decisions up and down the organization

    28:00 – “Negotiation” vs expectations and culture

    29:30 – When managers do and don’t make recommendations

    33:00 – Budgets, tax policy, and whether a balanced budget is a recommendation

    36:00 – Assistant manager perspective: one functional unit

    38:00 – Preemption, home rule, and plastic-bag bans

    44:00 – Inertia, backlash, and revisiting policy after it “marinates”

    47:00 – What’s distinctive about the Generation on the Rise cohort?

    48:00 – When operations are failing and the manager must force the policy conversation

    49:00 – Closing reflections & takeaways
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    50 mins
  • When Loyalty Gets Complicated in Local Government - Generation on the Rise shows us some heat!

    When Loyalty Gets Complicated in Local Government - Generation on the Rise shows us some heat!
    Dec 30 2025

    Summary: In this thought-provoking episode, Brandon, Dave, and Eden tackle the complex topic of workplace loyalty in local government. The hosts debate what loyalty means in practice, whether it’s connected to tenure, and how it differs from professionalism. The conversation takes an unexpected turn into residency requirements, sparking passionate disagreement about whether living in the community you serve impacts your work. As they wrap up 2024, the hosts announce exciting changes coming in 2025, including guest appearances.

    Generation on the Rise is produced by Nancy Hess (Publisher of MuniSquare) and features Eden Ratliff (Middletown Township Manager, Bucks County PA), Brandon Ford (Lower Merion Assistant Township Manager, Montgomery County PA, and Dave Pribulka (Bellefonte Borough Manager, Centre County PA)

    MuniSquare is a reader-supported publication. To subscribe to this feed, receive new posts and support our work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

    Show Notes:

    1. What does workplace loyalty mean in local government?
    2. The connection (or disconnection) between loyalty and tenure
    3. ICMA’s two-year standard and generational shifts in career mobility
    4. Professionalism vs. loyalty: which matters more?
    5. The heated residency debate: does living in your community change your recommendations?
    6. Small town dynamics vs. larger municipalities
    7. Looking ahead: Generation on the Rise adds guests in 2025!

    Timestamps:

    1. 00:00 - Cold open: ICMA’s two-year standard discussion
    2. 01:00 - Holiday gift assembly war stories
    3. 05:00 - Defining workplace loyalty in local government
    4. 08:00 - The role of personal affinity in job selection
    5. 11:00 - Measuring loyalty: what does it look like?
    6. 15:00 - The two-year standard and its implications
    7. 18:00 - Why managers move more frequently now
    8. 22:00 - ICMA’s two-year standard revisited
    9. 27:00 - Loyalty vs. professionalism in difficult decisions
    10. 31:00 - The residency debate begins
    11. 40:00 - Does living in your community affect recommendations?
    12. 46:00 - Generational differences in mobility and commitment
    13. 50:00 - Episode wrap-up and 2025 announcement
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    54 mins
  • Strategic Planning: From Vision to the Cross-offable Action

    Strategic Planning: From Vision to the Cross-offable Action
    Dec 17 2025

    As the calendar year closes out, Eden Ratliff sits down with Brandon Ford and Dave Pribulka to talk about strategic planning in the real world: not as a glossy document, but as a working “rudder” for budget decisions, priorities, and day-to-day execution.

    They dig into the tension between aspirational goals (the “why”) and cross-offable action steps (the “how”)—including how to avoid plans that sound inspiring but don’t translate into steps, owners, timelines, or resources.

    Along the way, they compare planning approaches in large and small communities, debate when to use consultants vs. doing the work in-house, and talk honestly about what happens when boards turn over and want to toss the plan on the shelf.

    Generation on the Rise is produced by Nancy Hess and features Eden Ratliff (Middletown Township Manager, Bucks County PA), Brandon Ford (Lower Merion Assistant Township Manager, Montgomery County PA, and Dave Pribulka (Bellefonte Borough Manager, Centre County PA)

    Subscribe to MuniSquare on Substack and sign up for the Generation on the Rise feed.

    Highlights

    00:00 - Welcome & Year-End Check-In

    00:01 - Episode Introduction: Strategic Planning

    00:02 - Brandon's Love/Hate Relationship with Strategic Planning

    00:03 - The Chicken or Egg Debate: Aspirational vs. Practical

    00:04 - Dave Introduces "Cross-Offable" Action Steps

    00:05 - The Comp Plan vs. Strategic Plan Hierarchy Debate

    00:07 - Eden's Cascade Model: How Plans Connect

    00:08 - Lower Merion's Annual Priorities Workshop Process

    00:11 - Strategic Planning for Small Communities

    00:15 - Dave: Small Communities Need It MORE

    00:17 - Brandon's Reality Check: Need vs. Resources

    00:18 - In-House vs. Hiring Consultants

    00:20 - Dave on Pros and Cons of Each Approach

    00:22 - Eden's Charlottesville Story: Third-Party Facilitation

    00:24 - Most Memorable Planning Experiences

    00:26 - Eden's 112-Person Strategic Team: "Planning Is Messy"

    00:28 - Strategic Plans Cannot Replace Policy Process

    00:30 - The Big Question: What When Boards Throw Out Your Plan?

    00:31 - Defining AMI and ALICE (Housing Affordability Context)

    00:34 - Dave: Sometimes Things Just Change

    00:35 - "Failing to Plan Is Planning to Fail" - True or False?

    00:37 - Emergency Planning Discussion

    00:38 - Dave's Key Insight: Strategic Plans Give Managers "Cover"

    00:40 - Final Wisdom: Planning for Communities of All Sizes

    00:41 - Closing & Where to Listen
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    41 mins