Welcome to Season Three of Reconstructing Inclusion!

What if DEI was built the same way curb cuts were — designed for the most excluded and better for everyone as a result? In this episode, Amri Johnson sits down with Dr. Jennifer Sarrett, founder of Disruptive Inclusion, to explore why the inclusion field keeps falling short — and what a proactive, evidence-based alternative looks like.

Dr. Jennifer Sarrett brings a rare combination of backgrounds: autism advocacy, bioethics, medical anthropology, and public health. Her methodology, Organizational Culture Design, draws from Universal Design principles to build workplaces where access and belonging are built in from the start — not bolted on after a crisis.

🔥 Standout Quotes:

“How can we predict where there might be barriers to somebody or a type of person? And go ahead and design to increase accessibility that will funnel down or trickle down to increase accessibility for everybody. Without making it more difficult for anybody.” [00:08:00]

“The efforts often aren’t embedded. So they’re training programs, one-off things that aren’t really tracked internally or actually turned into action. The field of DEI isn’t very good at explaining to those in power how it works for them as well.” [00:28:00]

In This Episode:

[00:02:00] Introducing Dr. Jennifer Sarrett and her background

[00:08:00] Universal Design — what it is and why DEI needs it

[00:13:00] Reactive vs. proactive inclusion — where the field has gone wrong

[00:20:00] Social determinants vs. identity-category thinking

[00:28:00] What DEI got wrong about communicating to those in power

[00:35:00] Why research has to come before solutions

About the Guest

Dr. Jen Sarrett is the founder of Disruptive Inclusion, an organizational culture strategy firm. With a PhD in Interdisciplinary Studies, her work bridges systems thinking, social science, and public health to solve complex people challenges. She also publishes Science of High Performance, a weekly newsletter on culture design in health and science.

Website: disruptiveinclusion.com

Personal site: jennifersarrett.com

LinkedIn: Jennifer Sarrett

#Inclusion #DEI #Leadership #OrganizationalDesign #Diversity #Neurodivergence

Let's Connect:

https://inclusionwins.com/

https://reconstructinginclusion.substack.com/

➡️ Subscribe to Reconstructing Inclusion for more unfiltered conversations about the future of diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI)

Welcome to Season Three of Reconstructing Inclusion!

In this solo episode, I break down why DEI didn't collapse because of courtroom battles or political backlash. It collapsed because the field stopped evolving. While we were busy seeking legal cover and worrying about what would hold up in court, something more consequential was happening inside organizations: sense-making was deteriorating, trust was thinning, and people increasingly felt replaceable.

The question now isn't whether DEI was lawful. The question is whether we're willing to evolve the field or just repackage the last 40 years of work and call it progress.

🔥 Standout Quotes:

"It's not the Trump administration that took down DEI in its entirety. The Trump administration came when it was politically expedient and then basically threw gasoline on a fire that was already burning." [00:11:00]

"Inclusion at its core is about sense-making. About making sense of the world, of each other, of our teams, of our organization. Understanding that the organization is all working in concert to create the conditions for everyone to do their best work and for the organization to fulfill on its mission." [00:17:00]

Resources Mentioned:

Reconstructing Inclusion by Amri Johnson

How Equality Wins by Kenji Yoshino and David Glasgow

Lily Zheng’s “FAIR Framework”

The Emergent Inclusion Framework

In This Episode:

[00:02:00] The damage that's already been done

[00:05:00] When sense-making declines

[00:08:00] Why we asked compliance to do the work of culture and capability

[00:11:00] Trump administration threw gasoline on a fire that was already burning

[00:13:00] How disagreement became treated as risk rather than data

[00:16:00] Introducing Emergent Inclusion

[00:17:00] The four questions

[00:22:00] When inclusion works...

[00:23:00] The choice: defensible or functional?

#Inclusion #DEI #Leadership #OrganizationalDevelopment #Diversity #Trump

Let's Connect:

https://inclusionwins.com/

https://reconstructinginclusion.substack.com/

➡️ Subscribe to Reconstructing Inclusion for more unfiltered conversations about the future of diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI)

Welcome to Season Three of Reconstructing Inclusion!

Designing for the Margins: Why Neurodivergent Thinkers Need More Than Awareness

Joy Elizabeth Buckner is an educational consultant who's spent 13 years abroad working across 25+ countries to support neurodivergent learners. With dyslexia, Irlen Syndrome, and ADHD, she brings lived experience to her mission of building belonging for neurodivergent thinkers.

We explore why educational systems are designed for the "middle," what happens when we build for the margins, and Joy's framework for moving beyond awareness to action: empowered, equipped, voiced, connected.

Key Topics: Teaching to the middle, blind spots around neurodivergence, "penguining" and ADHD brilliance, why neurodivergent people need proof they matter, the cost of masking

Timestamps: [00:12:00] From categories to lived experience [00:15:30] Why we're still teaching the same way [00:20:30] Joy's four-pillar framework [00:28:30] Systems that fail neurodivergent children [00:34:30] Neurodivergent people need extra proof [00:37:00] "Penguining" and neurodivergent brilliance

Resources: "Shantaram" by Gregory David Roberts, The Joy of Neurodiversity Podcast, "Covering" by Kenji Yoshino

20-30% of people are neurodivergent. When we design for the margins, everyone benefits.

🔥 Standout Quotes:

"If you were in my brain and you knew how hard I was trying in class, in school, in life—I was trying so hard just to try to feel normal. That's the thing that I hear again and again. We were lazy, we were defiant, we didn't try hard enough." [00:33:45]

"Other people can tell you that you matter. Other people can tell you that you belong. Other people can tell you that you're valued. We need proof. Neurodivergent people need extra proof." [00:34:30]

About Our Guest:

Joy Buckner is an educational consultant, speaker, and host of "The Joy of Neurodiversity" podcast. She works with parents, teachers, and ministries of education to build belonging and show dignity to the brilliance of neurodivergent thinkers. Based in Dubai, she's worked across 25+ countries reshaping how we understand and support diverse minds.

Let's Connect:

https://inclusionwins.com/

https://reconstructinginclusion.substack.com/

➡️ Subscribe to Reconstructing Inclusion for more unfiltered conversations about the future of diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI)