Dr Abi Lafbery has a PhD in outdoor swimming from Lancaster University in the UK. Her thesis focussed on the health, thoughts, experiences and behaviours of wild/open water swimmers, the health of the water they swim in, and swimmers’ impacts on waterways. For almost five years she was researching and writing about swimming, flora and fauna, pollution, and climate.

In this episode we talk about Abi’s own swimming in Cornwall, the Lake District, and on the wild, post-industrial coast of North West England; what she discovered from her research and interviews with outdoor swimmers; the ‘immersive knowledge’ (Abi coined this term!) that we develop from getting into open water and observing what is around us; issues, rights, and decision-making around access to waterways and water quality; how swimming can be environmental, comforting, liberating, or even a ‘wild’ act that transcends societal boundaries; and our connections to water, other people, and ourselves.

Read Abi’s articles:

• ​In hot water: swimming and climate change (Outdoor Swimmer magazine, January 2026 – paywalled)
• ​Outdoor swimming is becoming a sanctuary for female swimmers in the UK (The Conversation, December 2025)

In this episode I mention Jono Ridler, who is swimming down the east coast of the North Island (1600km over 90 days) to end bottom trawling in NZ – find out more at swim4theocean.com and sign the petition.

Abi also mentions ‘sea gooseberries’ and I wondered if they were the same as salps – apparently they are similar but not identical! Sea gooseberries are ctenophores (comb jellies), while salps are barrel-shaped tunicates that swim by pumping water. Both are harmless, non-stinging, and jelly-like.

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Dougal Dunlop is one of Wellington's swim legends and has been swimming and coaching for over 50 years. Now in his 70s, he continues to coach at Freyberg Pool and swims at Oriental Bay all year round – most mornings he'll be in the water at 6:46am (ish).

A back injury led to Dougal swimming regularly in the ocean and he founded the Washing Machines, a hardy group of open water enthusiasts including ultramarathoners and ice swimmers. Dougal updates the group (of over 200 members) via WhatsApp every day with the local swim conditions and water temperature.

We recorded this chat at AYE! Cafe in Oriental Bay so there's a bit of background noise sometimes – it's still a good listen for Dougal's stories and knowledge!

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Jono Ridler is currently swimming down the east coast of NZ's North Island (1,600km over 90 days) to raise awareness of destructive bottom trawling in the ocean. Find out more at swim4theocean.com and sign the petition!

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Support the Swim Chats podcast ($5 per month) via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/SwimChats⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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Thanks for listening! :-)

Bryn Williams is a Wellington ocean swimmer and is a great person to swim with. He helps nervous newbies (like me, a few years ago) and encourages us to have fun in the water whether it's jumping off the pontoons or doing handstands in the shallows. He's full of fun and lifts everyone's spirits just by showing up.

Bryn moved to NZ from Wales in the late 1970s, at the age of 14. When Bryn was young his uncle Tommy, who was in the Navy during WW2 and witnessed multiple drownings, taught his dozens of nephews and nieces to swim in the fresh, choppy Irish Sea. Bryn learned to navigate the waves and the jelllies. and as an adult he finds peace and joy in the sea, calling it his "Prozac". No wetsuit, no goggles, and sometimes accompanied by his golden retriever Ruby, a competitive harbour swimmer.

Bryn and I recorded this episode at his house and it's a great chat, so grab a cuppa and enjoy!

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Jono Ridler is currently swimming down the east coast of NZ's North Island (1,600km over 90 days) to raise awareness of destructive bottom trawling in the ocean. Find out more at ⁠swim4theocean.com⁠ and sign the petition.

*

Support the Swim Chats podcast ($5 per month) via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon.com/SwimChats⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow Swim Chats on Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Hit 'Follow' so you don't miss an episode.

Thanks for listening! :-)