“There is nothing radical about doing what is easy… what is truly radical is to do what is necessary to build a better world.”

In this episode, Craig speaks with forester and author Ethan Tapper about his award-winning book How to Love a Forest and what it means to care for ecosystems in an age of climate change, biodiversity loss, and what he calls “global change.”

Ethan’s path into forestry began unexpectedly, with a life-changing wilderness expedition that reshaped how he saw the natural world. That experience grew into a career working in forests and, eventually into a book that blends ecology, storytelling, and a deeply personal reflection on stewardship.

“The more you look, the more you see… and the more you see, the more you care.”

A central idea in the conversation is the need to move beyond the familiar dichotomy of either preserving nature or exploiting it. In today’s context, Ethan argues, that framing no longer works.

Forests are now shaped by overlapping pressures - climate change, invasive species, fragmentation, and the long legacy of human land use. Simply leaving them alone is often not enough. Instead, stewardship requires active, ongoing care.

“How could we love forests and cut trees? It doesn’t make sense—until you understand the moment we’re in.”

Through his work, Ethan reframes practices like tree cutting, invasive species management, and deer population control as necessary, if difficult, acts of restoration. These decisions are often emotionally challenging, but they reflect a deeper responsibility: recognizing that inaction can cause harm too.

“We are their greatest threat and also their best hope.”

The conversation highlights how multiple stressors are undermining forest health, particularly their ability to regenerate. Without regeneration, forests cannot adapt or survive.

This leads to a critical distinction: the greatest threat is not the cutting of trees, but deforestation—the permanent conversion of forests into other uses. In this sense, land-use planning, density, and zoning become central climate strategies.

“If we can’t keep forests as forests, nothing else we do matters.”

Turning to cities, Ethan reflects on the role of urban forests as both ecological and social infrastructure. Parks and ravines can provide meaningful habitat and climate benefits, but they also require trade-offs. Not every space can maximize ecological function, human use and cultural value are part of the equation.

“The answers aren’t simpler—they’re more complicated.”

Underlying the discussion is Ethan’s concept of “deep environmentalism” - an approach that moves beyond simply stopping harm toward actively doing good. It embraces complexity, trade-offs, and a more engaged relationship with the natural world.

One of the most powerful examples comes from his work restoring his own degraded forest, Bear Island, which has become a symbol not of loss, but of possibility.

“I’m not just preventing loss - I’m trying to build something more abundant.”

The episode closes with a simple call to action: engage locally. Connect with conservation organizations, participate in their work, and become part of the community caring for the ecosystems around you.

My guest today is Ken Greenberg - urban designer, city builder, and one of the most influential voices in shaping how North American cities think about density, public space, and climate resilience.

Cities are where the climate crisis becomes real.

Cities are where emissions are generated, where heat is felt, where floods happen, and where millions of daily decisions - about housing, mobility, energy, and land - quietly shape our collective future.

For decades, Ken has worked with cities around the world, helping them better understand that the question isn’t how dense we should we make our cities; but how we should make our cities dense, and what kind of life that density makes possible.

In this conversation, we talk about cities as adaptive organisms - places that evolve in response to powerful forces, including climate change.

Ken reflects on his early experiences in city-making, his work with Jane Jacobs, and what it means to design for organized complexity rather than false certainty.

We explore how urban form shapes emissions, why car-dependent sprawl is at the heart of both the housing and climate crises, and how walkable, mixed-use communities dramatically reduce our environmental footprint.

We also talk about climate adaptation, from providing shade and green infrastructure, to flood-resilient landscapes, to rethinking public space in an era of extreme heat and weather.

This is a wide-ranging conversation about patience, humility, and long-term thinking - about building cities that can learn, recover, and care for people in a century defined by uncertainty.

At its core, this episode is a reminder that cities have survived enormous upheaval before - and that with imagination, collaboration, and courage, they can help lead us through what comes next.

I hope you enjoy my conversation with Ken Greenberg.

In this conversation, Craig Applegath speaks with Lynda Ulrich, founder of The Goodness Exchange and host of the Conspiracy of Goodness podcast, about why stories of progress matter and how real change actually happens. Lynda traces the origins of her work back to a moment when she noticed something unsettling: people who had once been optimistic were suddenly afraid of the future.