The Ethically Immoral Podcast Podcast By Hosted by: Mike Payne cover art

The Ethically Immoral Podcast

The Ethically Immoral Podcast

By: Hosted by: Mike Payne
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The Ethically Immoral Podcast is a program dedicated to long-form conversations with poets, spoken word artists, authors, and creatives who use language as a tool for truth-telling, healing, and resistance. Hosted by Mike Payne, the show travels beyond the typical interview to explore the personal histories, artistic philosophies, and cultural contexts that shape the voice of the Creatives we welcome.


It’s not just about poetry or performance — it’s about the people behind the pen. We talk about identity, healing, joy, frustration, and the journey of becoming. Some moments are deep, others are funny, but all of them are authentic. If you’re someone who values storytelling, vulnerability, and good conversation, this space was created and cultivated for you.

© 2026 The Ethically Immoral Podcast
Art Entertainment & Performing Arts Literary History & Criticism Social Sciences
Episodes
  • Volume Seven - Chapter One - Our Conversation with Ebony Stewart
    Mar 23 2026

    In Volume Seven: Chapter One of the Program, we welcome Houston, Texas–born and based Educator, Playwright, Actress, Writer, Author, and Performance Poet Ebony Stewart. She is the 2017 Woman of the World Slam Champion, a three-time Austin Neo Soul Slam Champion, a B. Iden Payne Award recipient, and the David Mark Cohen New Play Award winner. She is also the author of four books, including her latest poetry collection Wash, which was recently named an Honors Award winner by the Texas Institute of Letters.

    In our conversation, Ebony reflects on what that recognition for Wash actually means—not just as an acknowledgment of the work itself, but as an outside validation of her writing acumen. We talk about the evolution of her voice, the version of herself that shows up in this collection, and how periods of creative difficulty—graduate school where writing poetry became difficult—shaped the way she approaches the page now.

    We also spend time sitting with something a lot of artists tend to move past too quickly: accomplishment. With a résumé as extensive as hers, Ebony discusses how often she truly pauses to take it in.

    Ebony opens up about the leap into becoming a full-time creative—what it looked like before that transition, the grind of balancing teaching with constant travel and performance, and the moment she decided to bet on herself. From there, we get into confidence: what it’s made of, how authenticity, self-awareness, and emotional honesty factor into it, and how she’s learned to carry heavy things like grief without letting them define every room she walks into.

    Contact Ebony:
    Website:
    ebpoetry.com Instagram: @gullyprincess

    Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include:

    Nayo Jones – We Will Not Ask
    Instagram: @nayojones Website: nayojones.com

    Jay Ward – Gentrification
    Instagram: @jayward2030

    Alysia Harris – Controlled Burn
    Instagram: @poppyinthewheat Website: alysiaharris.com

    Ebony Stewart: How We Forget (After Loyce Gayo)
    Ebony Stewart: Single

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    1 hr and 35 mins
  • Volume Six: Chapter Twenty - Our Conversation with Kathryn MacDonald
    Mar 16 2026

    In Volume Six: Chapter Twenty of the Program, we welcome Ontario-based Educator, Writer, Painter, Photographer, Author, and Poet Kathryn MacDonald. Our conversation explores the many ways creativity can intersect—through poetry, visual art, travel, and teaching—and how each discipline shapes the way an artist observes and responds to the world.

    Kathryn discusses her reputation as an ekphrastic writer, explaining how her poetry often emerges from an emotional dialogue with visual art and the details she encounters in everyday life. We talk about the role observation plays in her work, her writing process, and how reading and creative community continue to shape her development as a writer.

    We also explore her experiences as a sailor and traveler, how those journeys have influenced her imagination, and the relationship between her poetry, painting, and photography.

    The conversation concludes with a discussion of her forthcoming poetry collection, The Blue Gate, a lyrical exploration of love, grief, and the shifting emotional landscapes that follow loss.

    Contact Kathryn:
    Website:
    kathrynmacdonald.com

    Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include:

    Jae Nichelle – Brown Skin Girl
    Instagram: @croptopassassin Website: jaenichelle.com

    Emi Mahmoud – Window Games
    Instagram: @emibattuta Website: emi-mahmoud.com

    Crystal Valentine – I am Black before Woman in February
    Instagram: @crystalvalentine94 Website: iamcrystalvalentine.com

    Natasha Ria: Shine
    Website: natasharia.com Instagram: @natasharia

    Javon Johnson: Building
    Instagram: @javonism

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    1 hr and 54 mins
  • Volume Six: Chapter Nineteen - Our Conversation with Maria Giesbrecht
    Mar 8 2026

    In Volume Six: Chapter Nineteen of the Program, we welcome Durango, Mexico-born, Toronto-based Poet, Author, Curator, and Writer Maria Giesbrecht. She is a graduate of the post-graduate Creative Writing program at Humber College and the winner of the Jack McCarthy Book Prize and the Lesley Strutt Poetry Prize. Her work has also been recognized as a finalist for the Narrative Poetry Prize, a Best of Net nominee, and the runner-up for the Eden Mills Poetry Contest.

    She is the author of the poetry collection Peeling Oranges, and her forthcoming collection A Little Feral is scheduled for release May 8 and is currently available for pre-order.

    In our conversation, Maria and I talk about how her love of language began early—reading a Nancy Drew book nightly as a kid—and how poetry first entered her life in eighth grade through a science teacher who introduced her to spoken word and rap.

    We explore how writing became both refuge and release during difficult years growing up, and how persona poems help her navigate creative blocks.

    Maria also reflects on her religious upbringing and the complicated relationship she has had with faith, doubt, obedience, and questioning—and how writing has helped her process that evolving spiritual conversation.

    We discuss the early-morning creative state she relies on for drafting poems, and the turning point when she left a career in corporate accounting to pursue writing full-time.

    Finally, we talk about her writing community Gather, the role it plays in supporting other writers, and the ideas behind both of her poetry collections.

    Contact Maria:
    Instagram:
    @theguelphpoet Website: mariagiesbrecht.com

    Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include:

    Marie Foolchand – I am the People, the Mob
    Instagram: @laframbuessa

    Dua Saleh – Fractions
    Instagram: @doitlikedua Website: duasaleh.com

    Gabriel Ramiez – On Realizing Im Black
    Instagram: @poetramirez Website: ramirezpoet.com

    Andrea Gibson: Nutritionist
    Website: andreagibson.org Instagram: @andreagibson

    Dani Cook: Recess
    Instagram: @thedanicook Website: thisisdani.com

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    1 hr and 37 mins
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