n this episode of the Living Clean Podcast, we continue our book study of Living Clean: The Journey Continues, focusing on the final six paragraphs of the “Illness” section in Chapter 4.

Illness can challenge our recovery in ways we never expected. Physical suffering, fear of the future, and difficult choices can test the spiritual principles we rely on every day. In this conversation, we explore how the tools of recovery help us navigate those moments when life becomes uncertain and painful.

We discuss the importance of reaching out—calling a sponsor, leaning on our support group, and turning to the wisdom found in NA literature such as In Times of Illness. These tools help us make decisions we can live with and take the next right action, even in the middle of crisis.

The episode also explores the spiritual tension many of us feel when illness strikes. We talk about bargaining with God, expectations in prayer, and the powerful shift that happens when we move from demanding outcomes to practicing surrender. Recovery teaches us that our Higher Power is not a vending machine, and that acceptance of life on life’s terms often opens the door to gratitude—even when gratitude feels hardest to find.

We also examine the deeply personal nature of health decisions. Recovery does not give us a single model for how to live, and each of us must find our own balance between caring for ourselves and avoiding the self-destructive patterns of our past. Through honest reflection, inventory, and surrender, we learn how to live according to our values rather than our fears.

Ultimately, this section reminds us that recovery is not about perfection. It is about continually returning to the tools of the program, refining our balance between health and illness, action and acceptance, and learning how to live a life that aligns with our beliefs.

Freedom in recovery means something powerful: we get to live life according to our own choosing and design.

In this episode, Mason and Francis sit down with comedian Mark L., a performer known for bringing humor into recovery spaces and treatment settings across the world.

While respecting the spiritual principle of anonymity, this conversation focuses on experience, strength, and hope — not identity. Mark shares about his past, the role humor played in his recovery, and how laughter can help us talk about the things we once hid, denied, or ran from.

This is an honest discussion about addiction, recovery, perspective, and the power of being able to laugh without minimizing the seriousness of the journey.

If we can laugh about it, we can talk about it. And when we can talk about it, we don’t have to go through it alone.

After nearly five years of persistence, Francis finally tracks down Keith S., and in this special episode, both Mason and Francis sit down with him for a rare and powerful conversation about early Narcotics Anonymous history and service.

Keith was deeply involved in the Ohio fellowship during the early 1980s and attended both the 1982 and 1983 World Service Conferences. He shares firsthand insight into that pivotal era, including the moment he made the motion for Bob Stone to become office manager — a decision that had a lasting impact on NA’s service structure and communication. He also reflects on his experience at the Fifth World Literature Conference in Warren and what the fellowship felt like during one of its most challenging and formative periods.

Mason and Francis explore Keith’s memories of Jim M., discussions around Greg P., and the realities of navigating unity, growth, and difficult transitions within the fellowship at that time. Alongside the history, Keith opens up about his personal recovery journey and what it was like to stay clean and committed to service while NA itself was still evolving.

This episode is a rare blend of fellowship history, personal experience, and deep service perspective — an honest, insightful conversation that captures the spirit, struggles, and resilience of NA during a defining chapter in its development.