What happens when you rebuild French wine from scratch — without appellations, without traditional grapes, and without the assumption that younger consumers care about either?

In this episode, we sit down with Antonin Bonnet, co-founder of Pierre & Antonin, a fast-growing French wine brand scaling a very specific idea: Natural wine at a true mass-premium price point.

The numbers and positioning are what make this story compelling. Pierre & Antonin produced ~350,000 bottles last year and is targeting ~400,000 this year, expanding across 20+ export markets. But the real unlock is how they got there — by rethinking everything from grape selection to packaging to brand storytelling.

At the core is a contrarian bet: Hybrid “resistant” grape varieties. Long dismissed by the traditional wine industry, these grapes dramatically reduce vineyard inputs — less spraying, lower labor, lower cost — enabling the brand to hit a $15–$20 price point while maintaining margins.

That economic model is paired with a sharp read on the consumer. Their average drinker is 26–27 years old — a cohort that prioritizes taste, price, sustainability, and story over varietal pedigree or appellation.

And critically, the business is built around velocity, not tradition:

• Product-market fit: Pet Nat was the breakout SKU, driving ~60% of volume globally

• Retail unlock: Landing Trader Joe’s doubled revenue and validated U.S. national demand

• Go-to-market: Instagram collaborations outperform paid ads for reaching urban Gen Z consumers

• Brand strategy: Simplified labels and back-label education reduce friction at shelf

There’s also a deeper industry question running through this conversation: Is wine overbuilt for the next generation?

While the trade debates appellations and varietal purity, Pierre & Antonin is building for accessibility — in price, in messaging, and in experience. The result is a brand that’s growing by aligning sustainability with economics, not just storytelling.

For drinks founders, this episode is a case study in identifying white space, challenging category assumptions, and designing a business model that actually works at scale.

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Erica Duecy, co-host: Erica Duecy is founder and co-host of Business of Drinks and one of the drinks industry’s most accomplished digital and content strategists. She runs the consultancy and advisory arm of Business of Drinks and has built publishing and marketing programs for Drizly, VinePair, SevenFifty, and other hospitality and drinks tech companies.

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Instagram @ericaduecy

Scott Rosenbaum, co-host: Scott Rosenbaum is co-host of Business of Drinks and a veteran strategist and analyst with deep experience building drinks portfolios. Most recently, he was the Portfolio Development Director at Distill Ventures. Prior to that, he was the Vice President of T. Edward Wines & Spirits, a New York-based importer and distributor.

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Caroline Lamb, contributor: Caroline is a producer and on-air contributor at Business of Drinks and a key account sales and marketing specialist at AHD Vintners, a Michigan-based importer and distributor.

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Instagram @borkaline

If you enjoyed today’s conversation, follow Business of Drinks wherever you’re listening, and don’t forget to rate and review us. Your support helps us reach new listeners passionate about the drinks industry. Thank you!

What does it actually take to raise angel capital in today’s drinks market?

In this episode, we sit down with Katie Dunn, Principal at Masthead Strategies and an active angel investor across consumer brands, to unpack how early-stage investors are really evaluating beverage companies right now — and where founders are getting it wrong.

Today’s funding climate is no doubt challenging: Capital is tighter, the category is more crowded, and raising money requires far more than a compelling story. Katie shares a clear look at what angels expect — starting with returns.

TL;DR - This isn’t passive money. Angel investors are underwriting for 5–10x outcomes, which means founders need a credible path to scale, strong margins, and a clear view toward exit.

Katie breaks down why most early-stage drinks brands should be raising $250K–$500K to fund 12 months of runway — and tying every dollar to revenue-driving activities like inventory, sales, and market expansion. Overpaying yourself, cleaning up old debt, or raising more than you need? Those are immediate red flags.

We also get into the structural mistakes that kill deals, like messy cap tables, too many small investors, and stacked SAFEs at different valuation caps. These are common in beverage — and often make brands uninvestable before they even reach scale.

At the early stage, though, it’s less about the liquid and more about the founder. Katie explains why she prioritizes customer obsession, category expertise, and coachability — and how she tests for it. Founders who don’t deeply understand their competition, their numbers, or their path to margin expansion rarely make it through diligence.

There’s also an important message on product-market fit: Prove it in the market, not the deck. The brands that win are iterating quickly, listening to customers, and resisting the urge to scale into large retail before they’re operationally ready.

If you’re raising capital — or planning to — this episode is a tactical look at how investors actually think, what they’re looking for, and how to position your brand to win.

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Erica Duecy, co-host: Erica Duecy is founder and co-host of Business of Drinks and one of the drinks industry’s most accomplished digital and content strategists. She runs the consultancy and advisory arm of Business of Drinks and has built publishing and marketing programs for Drizly, VinePair, SevenFifty, and other hospitality and drinks tech companies.

LinkedIn

Instagram @ericaduecy

Scott Rosenbaum, co-host: Scott Rosenbaum is co-host of Business of Drinks and a veteran strategist and analyst with deep experience building drinks portfolios. Most recently, he was the Portfolio Development Director at Distill Ventures. Prior to that, he was the Vice President of T. Edward Wines & Spirits, a New York-based importer and distributor.

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Caroline Lamb, contributor: Caroline is a producer and on-air contributor at Business of Drinks and a key account sales and marketing specialist at AHD Vintners, a Michigan-based importer and distributor.

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Instagram @borkaline

If you enjoyed today’s conversation, follow Business of Drinks wherever you’re listening, and don’t forget to rate and review us. Your support helps us reach new listeners passionate about the drinks industry. Thank you!

What happens when a small experimental wine project turns into one of the most recognizable brands in the grocery store?

In this episode of Business of Drinks, we sit down with John Anthony Truchard, Founder and CEO of John Anthony Wine & Spirits, the company behind Butter Wines.

What began as a 1,000-case experiment in 2009 has grown into a brand approaching 800,000 cases annually, with Butter itself scaling to more than $85 million in revenue. At one point, the brand controlled roughly 18% of the $15–$20 Chardonnay segment in the U.S. — an extraordinary share in a crowded category.

Even more unusual: The brand achieved that scale without outside investment. Instead of venture capital, Truchard relied on bank financing, disciplined inventory management, and one “north star” signal — strong consumer pull.

As he explains in this episode, aggressively scaling Butter wasn’t the riskiest decision he made. It was the least risky because the wine kept selling out in the markets where it launched.

We unpack how Butter found its market seam by delivering a rich, barrel-style Chardonnay at a price point between mass brands like Kendall-Jackson and premium players like Rombauer. Truchard also explains how the company engineered a premium flavor profile at scale, and how he started with small, scrappy distributors before transitioning to national distribution with Southern Glazer’s and RNDC.

Along the way, he shares candid lessons about growth — including the risks of locking in long-term grape contracts during boom years and how those decisions create difficult adjustments when the market softens.

Finally, we discuss the company’s structured approach to innovation. Instead of chasing trends, the team follows a disciplined process — evaluation, innovation, execution, iteration — and then decides whether to accelerate a product or retire it.

That framework has already produced Butter Light, now one of the fastest-growing light Chardonnays, and Butter Zero, which launched with 18,000 points of distribution before its first release.

For founders and operators, this episode is a masterclass in scaling a drinks brand with focus, discipline, and the confidence to double down when the market says yes.

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Erica Duecy, co-host: Erica Duecy is founder and co-host of Business of Drinks and one of the drinks industry’s most accomplished digital and content strategists. She runs the consultancy and advisory arm of Business of Drinks and has built publishing and marketing programs for Drizly, VinePair, SevenFifty, and other hospitality and drinks tech companies.

Erica Duecy LinkedIn

Instagram @ericaduecy

Scott Rosenbaum, co-host: Scott Rosenbaum is co-host of Business of Drinks and a veteran strategist and analyst with deep experience building drinks portfolios. Most recently, he was the Portfolio Development Director at Distill Ventures. Prior to that, he was the Vice President of T. Edward Wines & Spirits, a New York-based importer and distributor.

Scott Rosenbaum LinkedIn

Caroline Lamb, contributor: Caroline is a producer and on-air contributor at Business of Drinks and a key account sales and marketing specialist at AHD Vintners, a Michigan-based importer and distributor.

Caroline Lamb LinkedIn

Instagram @borkaline

If you enjoyed today’s conversation, follow Business of Drinks wherever you’re listening, and don’t forget to rate and review us. Your support helps us reach new listeners passionate about the drinks industry. Thank you!

How do large hospitality groups decide which drinks brands make it onto their menus — and which ones don’t?

In this episode of Business of Drinks, we sit down with Miranda Breedlove, Beverage Director for The Lifestyle Group at Hyatt, to unpack how beverage decisions actually get made inside one of the world’s largest hospitality companies.

Miranda oversees beverage strategy across 70+ lifestyle properties and roughly 75 venues spanning brands like Thompson Hotels, Andaz, Dream Hotels, and The Standard. Unlike many hotel groups, Hyatt’s lifestyle division doesn’t replicate bar concepts. Each property has its own identity and sense of place, which means beverage programs must balance national supplier partnerships with local creativity.

For drinks founders, distributors, and operators, the conversation offers a rare look at how hospitality groups evaluate brands — and what it takes to scale inside those systems.

• Distribution is the first gatekeeperBefore a brand can even be considered for multi-property hospitality programs, it must demonstrate reliable distribution, consistent pricing, and strong distributor coverage across markets.

• Scaling usually starts with a pilotEven promising brands rarely roll out everywhere immediately. Miranda often tests new products in three to five properties across different markets before expanding further.

• Local support drives successBrands gain traction when reps educate bar teams, build relationships, and actively support the account. Teams respond to people and stories — not just bottles.

• National structure, local identityHyatt provides a national framework, but each property adapts its beverage program to reflect the local market and guest profile.

• Experiential activations winGuest bartender takeovers, masterclasses, and other immersive experiences keep teams and guests engaged far more effectively than routine promotions.

• Data is an underused advantageTools like menu matrix analysis and strong P&L literacy help operators identify which drinks truly drive profitability.

If you want to understand how hospitality groups actually make beverage decisions, this episode offers a rare look behind the curtain.

For the latest updates, follow us:

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Erica Duecy, co-host: Erica Duecy is founder and co-host of Business of Drinks and one of the drinks industry’s most accomplished digital and content strategists. She runs the consultancy and advisory arm of Business of Drinks and has built publishing and marketing programs for Drizly, VinePair, SevenFifty, and other hospitality and drinks tech companies.

Erica Duecy LinkedIn

Instagram @ericaduecy

Scott Rosenbaum, co-host: Scott Rosenbaum is co-host of Business of Drinks and a veteran strategist and analyst with deep experience building drinks portfolios. Most recently, he was the Portfolio Development Director at Distill Ventures. Prior to that, he was the Vice President of T. Edward Wines & Spirits, a New York-based importer and distributor.

Scott Rosenbaum LinkedIn

Caroline Lamb, contributor: Caroline is a producer and on-air contributor at Business of Drinks and a key account sales and marketing specialist at AHD Vintners, a Michigan-based importer and distributor.

Caroline Lamb LinkedIn

Instagram @borkaline

If you enjoyed today’s conversation, follow Business of Drinks wherever you’re listening, and don’t forget to rate and review us. Your support helps us reach new listeners passionate about the drinks industry. Thank you!

In an era of low-and-no headlines, one contrarian wine brand leaned into flavor high ABV. It scaled to 2.5 million cases in just three years.

In this episode of Business of Drinks, Erica sits down with Kaitlin Silva, Director of National Accounts at Tri-Vin Wines & Spirits, to unpack how XXL went from roughly 85,000 cases in its first year (2023) to 2.5 million cases in 2025, while much of wine was flat or declining.

The story isn’t just about virality; it’s about execution.

XXL didn’t start by winning Walmart. It was built in independent markets first - including roughly 100,000 cases in Maryland and about 300,000 cases in New York in year two. Consumers were actively looking for the brand. That pull-through gave Tri-Vin leverage when approaching national chains.

Kaitlin offers a rare inside look at how national accounts actually function, with two reset windows a year and six-to-eight-month feedback loops. It’s a “hurry up and wait” cycle where you’re pitching into fall’s reset before knowing your spring results.

We also discuss how data is the real language of chains. Kaitlin talks about living in SKU rankings, flavor segmentation, and state-by-state performance slicing. As she says, you may not be top 100 overall - but you might be top 5 within a specific subsegment in that region, and that’s the conversation that opens doors.

Perhaps most interesting for trade listeners: Velocity is currently winning over pure margin optimization. Many chains are focused on moving units and driving incremental shoppers in a value-conscious environment. XXL’s ability to turn - and to bring new consumers into the wine aisle - has been central to its expansion.

If you’re building a beverage brand, pitching national accounts, or trying to understand where wine’s real growth pockets are emerging, this episode offers perspective on how independents create momentum, how data earns scale, and why sometimes the biggest opportunity comes from zigging while everyone else zags.

For the latest updates, follow us:

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Erica Duecy, co-host: Erica Duecy is founder and co-host of Business of Drinks and one of the drinks industry’s most accomplished digital and content strategists. She runs the consultancy and advisory arm of Business of Drinks and has built publishing and marketing programs for Drizly, VinePair, SevenFifty, and other hospitality and drinks tech companies.

LinkedIn

Instagram @ericaduecy

Scott Rosenbaum, co-host: Scott Rosenbaum is co-host of Business of Drinks and a veteran strategist and analyst with deep experience building drinks portfolios. Most recently, he was the Portfolio Development Director at Distill Ventures. Prior to that, he was the Vice President of T. Edward Wines & Spirits, a New York-based importer and distributor.

LinkedIn

Caroline Lamb, contributor: Caroline is a producer and on-air contributor at Business of Drinks and a key account sales and marketing specialist at AHD Vintners, a Michigan-based importer and distributor.

LinkedIn

Instagram @borkaline

If you enjoyed today’s conversation, follow Business of Drinks wherever you’re listening, and don’t forget to rate and review us. Your support helps us reach new listeners passionate about the drinks industry. Thank you!

What does it take to turn a 1,500-acre family orchard into the second-largest cider company in the U.S.?

In this episode of Business of Drinks, Caroline sits down with Andrew Blake, Founder and CEO of Blake’s Beverage Company, to unpack how a seasonal agricultural business evolved into a national beverage platform selling just over 2 million cases annually across 44 states.

Blake’s began with a barn renovation and a tasting room designed to smooth out harvest-driven revenue. Six months later, a distributor knocked — and Andrew had to learn distribution on the fly. The move changed the trajectory of the company, but not without cost.

For founders, this is a grounded look at what scaling through the three-tier system actually requires. Andrew shares how the business was profitable in direct-to-consumer agritainment — then lost money entering distribution. The takeaway: Distribution is a long game, with upfront margin compression, trade spend, and capital intensity that many underestimate.

We also dig into the mechanics of growth. Blake’s expanded from a 5,000-square foot facility to a multi-plant footprint in Michigan, New York, Texas, and Oregon to de-risk apple supply and mitigate crop volatility. Today, the company manages roughly 200 distributors and nearly 200 beverage-focused employees within a broader 1,100-person enterprise.

Two hero SKUs anchor the portfolio: Triple Jam (~350,000 cases projected this year) and American Apple (~300,000 cases and accelerating). Andrew’s view aligns with broader data: Younger consumers are drinking less volume but seeking more flavor and impact — and cider’s flavor-forward profile is resonating.

Category-wise, cider still accounts for under 3% of beer share in the U.S., compared to 7–8% in more mature markets. Andrew believes there’s room to expand — through premiumization on one end and new value plays, including a more aggressive push into convenience, on the other.

We also explore Blake’s roll-up strategy with Austin Eastciders and Avid Cider, and Andrew’s caution to founders eyeing acquisitions: Cut synergy projections in half and assume everything will take longer than planned.

If you’re building in beverage — especially in a capital-intensive, agricultural category — this episode offers real insight on distribution strategy, capital discipline, and earning mindshare at scale.

Because as Andrew puts it: There’s no finish line. The job just gets bigger.

For the latest updates, follow us:

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Erica Duecy, co-host: Erica Duecy is founder and co-host of Business of Drinks and one of the drinks industry’s most accomplished digital and content strategists. She runs the consultancy and advisory arm of Business of Drinks and has built publishing and marketing programs for Drizly, VinePair, SevenFifty, and other hospitality and drinks tech companies.

LinkedIn

Instagram @ericaduecy

Scott Rosenbaum, co-host: Scott Rosenbaum is co-host of Business of Drinks and a veteran strategist and analyst with deep experience building drinks portfolios. Most recently, he was the Portfolio Development Director at Distill Ventures. Prior to that, he was the Vice President of T. Edward Wines & Spirits, a New York-based importer and distributor.

LinkedIn

Caroline Lamb, contributor: Caroline is a producer and on-air contributor at Business of Drinks and a key account sales and marketing specialist at AHD Vintners, a Michigan-based importer and distributor.

LinkedIn

Instagram @borkaline

If you enjoyed today’s conversation, follow Business of Drinks wherever you’re listening, and don’t forget to rate and review us. Your support helps us reach new listeners passionate about the drinks industry. Thank you!

What does it actually take to build a non-alcoholic spirit that the bar world respects?

In this episode of Business of Drinks, Chris Abbott, co-founder of The Pathfinder, walks us through how the NA brand scaled to more than 20,000 nine-liter cases in 2025 — up over 80% year-over-year — by doing something many emerging brands skip: Earning credibility on-premise first.

From Day One, The Pathfinder wasn’t positioned around what it doesn’t have. Instead, the team spent two years developing a fermented and distilled hemp-seed base, layered with 20 botanicals, so bartenders could treat it like a real spirit. Their key insight? If you want back-bar respect, build like a spirits brand — not a wellness brand.

Chris shares why they went after the hardest accounts first — bars you can’t buy your way into — and how landing 50 to 100 serious on-premise placements before leaning on distributors changed the entire conversation. As he observes, case studies are helpful, but visible traction in elite accounts is what turns heads inside distribution (and for consumer brand awareness).

He’s also transparent about what really motivates distributor partners. It’s not just growth charts. It’s whether reps believe they can make money selling the brand. Once that clicks, velocity follows.

We talk about the unexpected upside of scarcity (including an early COVID-era stockout that created outsized buzz), why the company resisted the typical CPG urge to launch multiple SKUs too early, and how RTDs were introduced later as a smart trial and versatility play — not as a distraction from the core bottle.

Retail expansion through Total Wine and Whole Foods became another proof point. When Pathfinder started selling in markets where the founders weren’t personally hand-selling or training staff, that’s when they knew product-market fit had moved beyond the echo chamber.

At its core, this is a conversation about disciplined growth. Chris returns again and again to fundamentals: Unit economics, profitable scaling, and earning the right to expand into new states and new channels.

If you’re building in non-alc, spirits, THC, functional, or any emerging drinks category where credibility with the trade matters, this episode offers a replicable blueprint for how to do it — and how to scale without losing focus.

For the latest updates, follow us:

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Erica Duecy, co-host: Erica Duecy is founder and co-host of Business of Drinks and one of the drinks industry’s most accomplished digital and content strategists. She runs the consultancy and advisory arm of Business of Drinks and has built publishing and marketing programs for Drizly, VinePair, SevenFifty, and other hospitality and drinks tech companies.

LinkedIn

Instagram @ericaduecy

Scott Rosenbaum, co-host: Scott Rosenbaum is co-host of Business of Drinks and a veteran strategist and analyst with deep experience building drinks portfolios. Most recently, he was the Portfolio Development Director at Distill Ventures. Prior to that, he was the Vice President of T. Edward Wines & Spirits, a New York-based importer and distributor.

LinkedIn

Caroline Lamb, contributor: Caroline is a producer and on-air contributor at Business of Drinks and a key account sales and marketing specialist at AHD Vintners, a Michigan-based importer and distributor.

LinkedIn

Instagram @borkaline

If you enjoyed today’s conversation, follow Business of Drinks wherever you’re listening, and don’t forget to rate and review us. Your support helps us reach new listeners passionate about the drinks industry. Thank you!