Frank and Stan Chats Podcast By Frank Norris and Stan Johnson cover art

Frank and Stan Chats

Frank and Stan Chats

By: Frank Norris and Stan Johnson
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Frank Norris and Stan Johnson have been friends since 1995. Both have had successful and lengthy careers in education. Frank was a very senior HMI with Ofsted for 11 years and was the CEO of the Coop Academies Trust for 6 years. Stan was seconded to Ofsted for a year and then returned to headship before working as a senior adviser with Lancashire LA. He has latterly led a successful education consultancy in the North West. Prior to Covid-19, the two gents would meet in Manchester for a pint or two but the pandemic put an end to that. On 1 May 2020, they recorded their first video chat as a way of recording their emotions and reactions to the pandemic. After putting the video on Youtube as a safe place to store it they realised that some followers began to appear. Now, with nearly 180 episodes and having chatted to Professors, CEOs, journalists, teachers, former HMI, education thinkers and Frank's Key Stage 1 leading daughter they have a loyal following and a rapidly increasing number of viewers. The reach of the Frank and Stan Chat stretches from Bogota to Ottawa to Greece and their first Live Edition was recorded in front of nearly 200 Headteachers in York. The Chats are not undertaken to attract followers or for financial reward (nothing is received and nothing will be received). It is a way of airing views on education matters between two professional friends with a focus on leadership. We are honoured to be invited to host the weekly chats on the Leader-connect website www.leader-connect.co.uk. The chats helped the gents get through the pandemic and they are delighted that they have been enjoyed by others and appear to have helped in developing leadership thought and actions. If you fancy being a guest then just reach out. We never post a video unless the guest is comfortable with it. So, it is a relatively risk-free environment. Thank you. Frank and Stan. PS. We were honoured to be identified as one of the Top 50 education and leadership podcasts in THE WORLD!!! We can't believe it, but it appears to be true.

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© 2023 Frank and Stan Chats
Episodes
  • Frank and Stan Chat SPOTLIGHT No.24

    Frank and Stan Chat SPOTLIGHT No.24
    Mar 16 2026

    In May 2025, Frank met Ellen Mukwewa at a conference, and they followed this up with a virtual chat or two. During one the chats Ellen explained that she and her good friend Michelle Baker had created a new organisation bringing together those involved in the non-association independent school sector. As this was an issue the Frank and Stan Chat had not covered on a regular basis it seemed a good opportunity to set up a SPOTLIGHT edition to better understand the sector.


    This SPOTLIGHT delves into a sector that is poorly understood by many but is a crucial element in supporting many children and young people with a diverse range of needs. What follows is a fascinating discussion.


    Enjoy, and we hope learn more about their newly formed alliance, their upcoming conference and their ambition for the future.

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    35 mins
  • Frank and Stan Chat No. 252

    Frank and Stan Chat No. 252
    Mar 12 2026

    It is always a pleasure to have a previous guest return to our chat so that we can develop further some key points from the initial chat. Cathal Lynch joined us in March 2025 and received some of the highest viewing and listening figures in recent times. He's an engaging and deeply committed colleague who has focused on wellbeing in schools in recent years. The Wellbeing Quality Mark is well worth considering www.wbqm.co.uk


    This chat considers the financial effectiveness of some high-profile trusts that have encountered financial challenges in recent weeks. Stan and Cathal let rip with Frank acting more like a BBC journalist. We should add that many trusts are well-led and financially secure, but there are still some lessons to learn from recent issues and problems. Frank closes the chat with reference to a recently published research paper into 'stuck' schools, a phrase he personally dislikes. TURNING AROUND ‘STUCK’ SCHOOLS IN ENGLAND: EFFECTIVE LEADERSHIP IN EXTREMELY CHALLENGING CIRCUMSTANCES by Bernadette Munoz and Melanie Ehren challenges the idea that support from afar is unlikely to be effective. A message perhaps for the RISE programme.


    Enjoy.

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    34 mins
  • Frank and Stan Chat No. 251

    Frank and Stan Chat No. 251
    Mar 5 2026

    Rebecca Leek, poet, musician, former Headteacher of three schools, broadcaster and author of The School-Ready Governor returns to the chat. She was a guest in March 2025 and made a very favourable impression, bringing a wide range of insights on education and leadership. It's a timely chat with World Book Day on Thursday 5th March.


    Rebecca explains how her life has changed in some respects since our last chat and how she is engaging in so many more things. These include;

    - creating a podcast that focuses on poetry called 'The Ditty Bag' https://rebeccaleek.substack.com/podcast

    - learning to play the accordian, and;

    - performing it in a band. She continues to be involved in the Suffolk Primary Headteachers' Association.


    This week's chat starts with Stan explaining why Martin's Law continues to be an issue, which he feels isn't getting sufficient attention. He draws on some interesting examples of how schools have tried to be innovative in addressing possible risks to pupil and staff safety. Rebecca makes clear that risk assessment and mitigation are proactive and positive measures.


    Rebecca then considers the implications for SEND within the recent White Paper. She is concerned about the sense of universality that embraces the report and the difficulties in managing parent and carer expectations moving forward. We also discuss how effective a national training programme for SEND will be and the implication it conveys, that schools are not effective in managing the issues.


    Frank completes the discussion by considering what he learned from 4 months of interim CEO work for a small trust in Greater Manchester.


    An interesting and broad ranging discussion. Sorry, it went over the 35 minutes limit, but we felt it was worthwhile. We hope you agree.


    The various links Rebecca referenced in the chat can be found below


    www.rebeccaleek.com

    Podcast: The Ditty Bag

    Author: The School Ready Governor - Bloomsbury

    Exec. Director: Suffolk Primary Headteachers' Association

    Find Rebecca on X and Instagram


    And a new project she is crowdfunding for: 'Elizabeth Fry Stops By'


    https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/p/elizabeth-fry-stops-by


    Enjoy

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