In this deeply personal episode of Open Spaces, Jeff sits down with his longtime friend Wes Martin — the first friend Jeff ever shared his struggle with.

Wes had a front row seat to the earliest and most fragile days of Jeff learning how to bring his story into the light. What started as an awkward and uncertain conversation between two friends eventually grew into something much deeper. During some of Jeff’s darkest moments, when the weight of shame and confusion left him feeling hopeless and even questioning if life was worth living, Wes and his wife Amanda stepped in with extraordinary care.

They didn’t have all the answers. But they offered what mattered most: presence, love, and a safe place to land. At one point they even opened their home to Jeff, making sure he wasn’t alone as he wrestled through those difficult days.

Together they reflect on the messy beginnings of vulnerability — what it’s like to tell someone your struggle for the first time, how imperfect those early conversations can be, and how real friendship often means figuring it out as you go.

This episode is a reminder that when honesty is met with deep relationship and love, even the most complicated and painful moments can become the starting point for something beautiful.

If you’ve ever wondered what it looks like to take that first step of letting someone into your struggle, this conversation is for you.

In this powerful and deeply personal episode of Open Spaces, Jeff and Jourdan sit down with one of their closest friends of over 23 years, Drew Worsham — illusionist, author of The Magic of Curiosity, pastor, and trusted confidant.

This conversation is far more than a reunion. Drew has walked with Jeff and Jourdan since the very beginning of their story — through dating, breakups, Jeff’s early confession of struggling with same-sex attraction, their engagement, and now decades of marriage and ministry. Few people have had such a front-row seat to their journey.

Together, they unpack:

• What it looked like for Jeff to first share his struggle with Drew

• How a friendship can remain steady, safe, and non-transactional in the face of vulnerability

• Why curiosity — not condemnation — creates space for transformation

• How the Church can better engage conversations around same-sex attraction

• What to say to someone who hates themselves for their struggle

• The difference between leading with conviction and leading with love

• Why obedience is a response to love — not a prerequisite for it

Drew shares how curiosity became a guiding compass in his life — from studying psychology, to performing as a magician, to planting a church, to rediscovering humility after becoming the “expert.” He explains how losing curiosity nearly cost him relational depth — and how reclaiming it reshaped his marriage, ministry, and friendships.

One of the most moving moments comes as Drew reflects on Jesus and the woman caught in adultery — reminding listeners that God is not thrown off by our brokenness. He does not lead with condemnation. He leads with love, and invites us into transformation from there.

For parents navigating a child’s confession.

For those wrestling with shame.

For pastors unsure how to step into this conversation.

For anyone who feels like their struggle defines them.

This episode is an invitation into the “messy middle” — where truth and grace are not enemies, where curiosity builds bridges, and where the love of Jesus becomes the starting place for real change.

It’s about friendship.

It’s about freedom.

It’s about learning that none of us are as alone — or as different — as we think.

And above all, it’s about the kind of love that stays.

For more information on Drew’s ministry or to order his book, visit www.drewworsham.com

This week on Open Spaces, Jeff sits down with the two guys he walks with most closely in Atlanta, Bryson and Kristian, for a “guys-only” conversation (ladies, you’re absolutely invited to listen too). After last week’s episode with both couples, the three of them go deeper into the real question so many people ask: What do your weekly accountability time(s) actually look like?

They unpack their 10-year friendship journey, how it started, how trust was built over time, and why you can’t manufacture deep community overnight. You’ll hear the practical rhythms that keep them anchored: putting it on the calendar, moving from casual catch-up into honest heart-level sharing, asking specific questions, naming blind spots, and learning how to confess quickly without spiraling into shame.

They also talk about what happens when life gets busy and they can’t meet, how voice texts become a lifeline, and why this kind of friendship isn’t just about “trying harder,” but about living in the light, pursuing sanctification, and becoming better husbands, dads, and men who are ready to participate in what God is doing.

The episode closes with a prayer for anyone who feels alone, stuck, or unsure how to find community like this, asking God to break shame, provide friendships, and teach us how to walk with others well.