Episode 40: Attributes of a Next Level Leader

Revitalize My Church Podcast | Guest: Ed Short | Host: Bart Blair

Keywords: next level leader, church leadership development, pastor leadership skills, small church revitalization, leadership attributes for pastors, how to become a better church leader, coaching pastors

TL;DR — 4 Key Takeaways

Next level leadership is not about jumping from good to great overnight — it's about intentional, incremental growth from wherever you are right now.
Effective church leaders develop a set of core attributes including God-dependence, self-awareness, relational competence, and a bias toward implementation.
Self-awareness may be the single most critical leadership skill: knowing your strengths to capitalize on, and your weaknesses to neutralize or delegate around.
Pastors don't have to do it all alone — identifying implementers and key people on your team who complement your gaps is a legitimate and powerful leadership strategy.

Episode Overview

What separates a good pastor from a truly effective church leader? In episode 40 of the Revitalize My Church Podcast, host Bart Blair sits down with church leadership coach Ed Short to unpack the key attributes of what Ed calls a "next level leader." Whether you're pastoring a congregation of 40 or 140, this conversation is packed with honest, practical insight designed to help you take your leadership from where it is to where it needs to be.

Ed draws on decades of ministry experience — from student pastor to executive pastor to lead pastor of three churches including a church plant — to offer a grounded, real-world framework for leadership development that doesn't require a massive budget or a seminary refresher. Just honest self-assessment and a commitment to growth.

About the Guest: Ed Short

Ed Short is a church leadership coach and consultant who serves on the Assist Church Expansion team alongside host Bart Blair. His ministry journey spans student ministry, executive pastoral leadership, and lead pastor roles at multiple churches. Ed is passionate about two things above all: evangelism — reaching people far from God — and discipleship, helping new believers begin to look like Jesus.

Ed's wife Carol is, in his words, "the best ministry worker I have ever been around" and serves as his most trusted ministry advisor. Ed's coaching work focuses on helping pastors identify their leadership ceiling and take measurable steps to break through it.

Note: Ed previously appeared on Episode 15 of the Revitalize My Church Podcast, covering how churches can navigate a pastoral search process. That episode remains the most downloaded in the show's history.

What Is a Next Level Leader?

Ed uses the analogy of a five-tool baseball player — think Willie Mays or Mike Trout — to frame what it means to be a next level leader. Just as the elite players in baseball excel at hitting for average, hitting for power, speed, fielding, and throwing, great leaders develop across multiple dimensions simultaneously.

But the goal isn't perfection — it's progress. As Ed explains:

"If you're a four, how do we help you become a five? If you're a six, how do we help you become a seven? Nobody goes from being a four to a nine."

The framework Ed has developed identifies a range of attributes, qualities, abilities, and mindsets that characterize next level leaders. Rather than feeling overwhelmed by the full list, Ed encourages leaders to identify three things they can capitalize on and two or three areas they need to neutralize or delegate around.

Key Attributes of a Next Level Leader

1. God-Dependence

Ed opens with what he calls his own weakest point — and it may be yours too. God-dependence means prioritizing prayer and reliance on God above strategic planning. Ed admits freely: "I would rather plan than pray." This honest vulnerabilit...

Hosts: Bart Blair (Director of Church Revitalization, Assist Church Expansion) & Nathan Bryant (Executive Director, Assist)

1. Conflict is normal in churches - 75% of 14,000+ surveyed churches experienced conflict; it's not an exception, especially during revitalization

2. Conflict differs from resistance - Resistance to change requires different handling than general congregational conflict between members

3. Face reality: conflict will come - Change creates conflict; prepare your leadership team to expect and plan for it rather than being blindsided

4. Move toward conflict quickly but wisely - Address issues within 48-72 hours to prevent escalation, but take time to pray and process first

5. Always go face-to-face - Never resolve conflict through text or email; digital communication strips away tone and escalates tension

6. Bring a witness - Leaders should include an elder or team member when mediating conflict to ensure accountability and accurate reporting

Conflict is one of the most challenging aspects of leading a church through revitalization. In this episode, Bart Blair and Nathan Bryant tackle the reality that 75% of churches experience some level of conflict - and provide practical keys for navigating it successfully.

Church revitalization creates a perfect storm for conflict:

• Change itself generates tension between longtime members and new vision

• Power dynamics shift as leadership structures evolve

• Resource scarcity creates disagreements about priorities

• Unspoken expectations lead to assumptions and misunderstandings

• Communication gaps allow gossip to fill the vacuum

According to the Faith Communities Today (FACT) study of over 14,000 congregations, the top sources of church conflict are:

• Member behavior (44%)

• Money and finances (42%)

• Worship style (41%)

• Leadership style (40%)

• Decision-making processes (39%)

• Program priorities (30%)

• Theology and doctrine (26%)

Before diving into conflict management strategies, it's important to understand that resistance to change is different from general congregational conflict. Resistance specifically relates to pushback against new initiatives, while conflict can arise from interpersonal issues, behavior problems, or disagreements unrelated to revitalization efforts.

This episode focuses on managing conflict that occurs between members and maintaining unity - a primary responsibility of church leadership.

Scripture Foundation: "Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance." - James 1:2-4

Rather than being surprised or defensive when conflict emerges, church leaders must:

• Normalize conflict without treating it as catastrophic

• Identify your four types of people: Categorize your congregation into sleepers (spiritually asleep), seekers (genuinely open), consumers (service-focused), and disciples (committed followers)—and focus your energy strategically on each group rather than trying to be everything to everyone.

• Simplify to transform: Stop adding more programs. Instead, focus on creating a discipleship culture through spiritual disciplines like reflection, gratitude, and confession that actually change hearts and behavior, not just knowledge.

• Lead from your own renewal: Pastors experiencing burnout should prioritize their own spiritual formation and daily gratitude first—this "rewires" your soul and naturally makes your church healthier and more missional.

• Build a scalable discipleship pathway: Multi-campus churches can maintain their DNA while reaching diverse communities by being intentional about discipleship at every level, from sleepers to mature disciples.

Pastor Daniel Im sits down with Bart Blair to discuss one of the most critical challenges facing church leaders today: how to disciple people in a way that actually transforms their lives and faith practices, not just fills their heads with Bible knowledge.

In this conversation, Daniel shares lessons from leading a 104-year-old multi-ethnic, multi-campus church in post-Christian Canada, and discusses his latest book, The Discipleship Opportunity: Leading a Great-Commission Church in a Post-Everything World. If you're a pastor feeling burned out, questioning your approach, or wondering how to reach and disciple people differently in today's culture, this episode is for you.

Daniel challenges the church growth mentality that prioritizes attendance and buildings over genuine discipleship. He explains why many churches create "Christian consumers" instead of committed disciples, and what a healthier framework looks like.

Daniel introduces the "quadrant" of people every church has: sleepers (spiritually asleep members), seekers (genuinely open to faith), consumers (who view church as a service to attend), and disciples (committed followers). Understanding these categories changes everything about your approach.

Rather than chasing larger numbers, Daniel shares a surprising insight: when pastors focus on daily gratitude, spiritual disciplines, and their own transformation, the church naturally becomes healthier and more missional.

From his experience at Beulah Alliance Church (now multi-campus with 12,000+ attendees), Daniel shares how to build a discipleship culture that scales without losing its DNA.

Daniel shares fascinating insights about how our brains actually change when we practice spiritual disciplines like reflection, meditation, and confession—and why this matters for church leaders trying to help people grow.

"My heart and my desire for you is that just like I pray every week, God, would you wake up the sleepers, the seekers, the consumers, and the disciples."

"It's so easy to just...