Episode 40: Attributes of a Next Level Leader

Revitalize My Church Podcast | Guest: Ed Short | Host: Bart Blair

Keywords: next level leader, church leadership development, pastor leadership skills, small church revitalization, leadership attributes for pastors, how to become a better church leader, coaching pastors

TL;DR — 4 Key Takeaways

Next level leadership is not about jumping from good to great overnight — it's about intentional, incremental growth from wherever you are right now.
Effective church leaders develop a set of core attributes including God-dependence, self-awareness, relational competence, and a bias toward implementation.
Self-awareness may be the single most critical leadership skill: knowing your strengths to capitalize on, and your weaknesses to neutralize or delegate around.
Pastors don't have to do it all alone — identifying implementers and key people on your team who complement your gaps is a legitimate and powerful leadership strategy.

Episode Overview

What separates a good pastor from a truly effective church leader? In episode 40 of the Revitalize My Church Podcast, host Bart Blair sits down with church leadership coach Ed Short to unpack the key attributes of what Ed calls a "next level leader." Whether you're pastoring a congregation of 40 or 140, this conversation is packed with honest, practical insight designed to help you take your leadership from where it is to where it needs to be.

Ed draws on decades of ministry experience — from student pastor to executive pastor to lead pastor of three churches including a church plant — to offer a grounded, real-world framework for leadership development that doesn't require a massive budget or a seminary refresher. Just honest self-assessment and a commitment to growth.

About the Guest: Ed Short

Ed Short is a church leadership coach and consultant who serves on the Assist Church Expansion team alongside host Bart Blair. His ministry journey spans student ministry, executive pastoral leadership, and lead pastor roles at multiple churches. Ed is passionate about two things above all: evangelism — reaching people far from God — and discipleship, helping new believers begin to look like Jesus.

Ed's wife Carol is, in his words, "the best ministry worker I have ever been around" and serves as his most trusted ministry advisor. Ed's coaching work focuses on helping pastors identify their leadership ceiling and take measurable steps to break through it.

Note: Ed previously appeared on Episode 15 of the Revitalize My Church Podcast, covering how churches can navigate a pastoral search process. That episode remains the most downloaded in the show's history.

What Is a Next Level Leader?

Ed uses the analogy of a five-tool baseball player — think Willie Mays or Mike Trout — to frame what it means to be a next level leader. Just as the elite players in baseball excel at hitting for average, hitting for power, speed, fielding, and throwing, great leaders develop across multiple dimensions simultaneously.

But the goal isn't perfection — it's progress. As Ed explains:

"If you're a four, how do we help you become a five? If you're a six, how do we help you become a seven? Nobody goes from being a four to a nine."

The framework Ed has developed identifies a range of attributes, qualities, abilities, and mindsets that characterize next level leaders. Rather than feeling overwhelmed by the full list, Ed encourages leaders to identify three things they can capitalize on and two or three areas they need to neutralize or delegate around.

Key Attributes of a Next Level Leader

1. God-Dependence

Ed opens with what he calls his own weakest point — and it may be yours too. God-dependence means prioritizing prayer and reliance on God above strategic planning. Ed admits freely: "I would rather plan than pray." This honest vulnerabilit...

Hosts: Bart Blair (Director of Church Revitalization, Assist Church Expansion) & Nathan Bryant (Executive Director, Assist)

1. Conflict is normal in churches - 75% of 14,000+ surveyed churches experienced conflict; it's not an exception, especially during revitalization

2. Conflict differs from resistance - Resistance to change requires different handling than general congregational conflict between members

3. Face reality: conflict will come - Change creates conflict; prepare your leadership team to expect and plan for it rather than being blindsided

4. Move toward conflict quickly but wisely - Address issues within 48-72 hours to prevent escalation, but take time to pray and process first

5. Always go face-to-face - Never resolve conflict through text or email; digital communication strips away tone and escalates tension

6. Bring a witness - Leaders should include an elder or team member when mediating conflict to ensure accountability and accurate reporting

Conflict is one of the most challenging aspects of leading a church through revitalization. In this episode, Bart Blair and Nathan Bryant tackle the reality that 75% of churches experience some level of conflict - and provide practical keys for navigating it successfully.

Church revitalization creates a perfect storm for conflict:

• Change itself generates tension between longtime members and new vision

• Power dynamics shift as leadership structures evolve

• Resource scarcity creates disagreements about priorities

• Unspoken expectations lead to assumptions and misunderstandings

• Communication gaps allow gossip to fill the vacuum

According to the Faith Communities Today (FACT) study of over 14,000 congregations, the top sources of church conflict are:

• Member behavior (44%)

• Money and finances (42%)

• Worship style (41%)

• Leadership style (40%)

• Decision-making processes (39%)

• Program priorities (30%)

• Theology and doctrine (26%)

Before diving into conflict management strategies, it's important to understand that resistance to change is different from general congregational conflict. Resistance specifically relates to pushback against new initiatives, while conflict can arise from interpersonal issues, behavior problems, or disagreements unrelated to revitalization efforts.

This episode focuses on managing conflict that occurs between members and maintaining unity - a primary responsibility of church leadership.

Scripture Foundation: "Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance." - James 1:2-4

Rather than being surprised or defensive when conflict emerges, church leaders must:

• Normalize conflict without treating it as catastrophic

• Identify your four types of people: Categorize your congregation into sleepers (spiritually asleep), seekers (genuinely open), consumers (service-focused), and disciples (committed followers)—and focus your energy strategically on each group rather than trying to be everything to everyone.

• Simplify to transform: Stop adding more programs. Instead, focus on creating a discipleship culture through spiritual disciplines like reflection, gratitude, and confession that actually change hearts and behavior, not just knowledge.

• Lead from your own renewal: Pastors experiencing burnout should prioritize their own spiritual formation and daily gratitude first—this "rewires" your soul and naturally makes your church healthier and more missional.

• Build a scalable discipleship pathway: Multi-campus churches can maintain their DNA while reaching diverse communities by being intentional about discipleship at every level, from sleepers to mature disciples.

Pastor Daniel Im sits down with Bart Blair to discuss one of the most critical challenges facing church leaders today: how to disciple people in a way that actually transforms their lives and faith practices, not just fills their heads with Bible knowledge.

In this conversation, Daniel shares lessons from leading a 104-year-old multi-ethnic, multi-campus church in post-Christian Canada, and discusses his latest book, The Discipleship Opportunity: Leading a Great-Commission Church in a Post-Everything World. If you're a pastor feeling burned out, questioning your approach, or wondering how to reach and disciple people differently in today's culture, this episode is for you.

Daniel challenges the church growth mentality that prioritizes attendance and buildings over genuine discipleship. He explains why many churches create "Christian consumers" instead of committed disciples, and what a healthier framework looks like.

Daniel introduces the "quadrant" of people every church has: sleepers (spiritually asleep members), seekers (genuinely open to faith), consumers (who view church as a service to attend), and disciples (committed followers). Understanding these categories changes everything about your approach.

Rather than chasing larger numbers, Daniel shares a surprising insight: when pastors focus on daily gratitude, spiritual disciplines, and their own transformation, the church naturally becomes healthier and more missional.

From his experience at Beulah Alliance Church (now multi-campus with 12,000+ attendees), Daniel shares how to build a discipleship culture that scales without losing its DNA.

Daniel shares fascinating insights about how our brains actually change when we practice spiritual disciplines like reflection, meditation, and confession—and why this matters for church leaders trying to help people grow.

"My heart and my desire for you is that just like I pray every week, God, would you wake up the sleepers, the seekers, the consumers, and the disciples."

"It's so easy to just...

Hosts: Bart Blair (Director of Church Revitalization, Assist Church Expansion) & Nathan Bryant (Executive Director, Assist)

Episode Summary

In this episode, Bart and Nathan discuss five common obstacles that derail church revitalization efforts. Based on years of experience coaching churches through renewal and replanting, they identify specific failure points and provide practical solutions to help church leaders navigate change more effectively. This episode is designed to help church leaders position their churches for success in 2026 and beyond.

• Overestimated Readiness: Churches think they're ready for change but haven't prepared their congregation or identified cultural barriers—use health and readiness assessments before launching revitalization.

• Unrealistic Growth Expectations: Expecting to reach younger demographics without addressing cultural dissonance—conduct a demographic study and focus on reaching the lost, not just targeting an age group.

• Poor Leadership Pacing: Leaders often move too fast without relational capital or too slowly without momentum—get a coach and build a strategic vision team to maintain accountability.

• Complicated Decision-Making: Consensus-based governance on every decision creates red tape that prevents progress—delineate staff, board, and congregational decisions and simplify your structure.

• Unprepared for Conflict: Most churches are reactive rather than proactive in conflict management—implement Biblical conflict training before crisis hits and address issues early using Matthew 18 principles.

Key Points:

• Hearts say "yes" to change, but heads aren't prepared to follow

• Churches are unclear about how much change is actually necessary

• They're looking for a "silver bullet" rather than understanding systemic cultural change

• Congregants have conflated practices with theology—they believe cultural expressions are biblical mandates

• Small changes (like removing a painting or changing wall colors) can create unexpected resistance

Solution:

• Conduct a Health Assessment and Readiness Assessment before beginning revitalization

• Use the "Praying for Renewal in Our Church" 40-day prayer guide to prepare the congregation spiritually

• Download the Health Assessment at RevitalizeMyChurch.com

• Spend time nurturing relationships and moving people toward readiness rather than rushing into change

Key Points:

• Churches have lost younger generations due to cultural dissonance between the church's identity and contemporary culture

• The church's identity is often frozen at its "peak"—whatever cultural expression existed when the church was most vibrant becomes permanent

• Young people feel they're "time traveling" when they enter the sanctuary

• Young adults seek churches where they can bring friends and feel culturally at home

• Focus should be on reaching the lost, not necessarily on achieving a specific age demographic

Solution:

• Conduct a demographic community study to understand who lives in your area

• Ask and answer: "Who are we most likely to reach given our location and community connections?"

• Don't assume that hiring a young pastor automatically attracts young families

• Recognize that...

How Churches Can Find New Life Through a Strategic Merger

Podcast Show Notes with Jim Tomberlin

TLDR: 4 Key Takeaways

Church mergers are no longer a last resort – They've evolved from a "survival tactic" to a legitimate growth strategy, with 40%+ of multi-site churches now acquiring campuses through mergers rather than church plants alone.

Focus on mission, not just survival – The most successful mergers happen when churches prioritize reaching their community and making disciples over simply preserving a building or institution.

One church leads, one follows – A successful merger requires clear leadership dynamics (not a 50/50 partnership). Health and trajectory matter more than size or wealth when determining the lead church.

Control is the biggest merger killer – More mergers fail due to pastors, board members, or donors unwilling to relinquish control than any other factor. Humility and kingdom-mindedness are essential.

How to Tell If Your Church Is a Good Candidate for a Strategic Merger

Jim Tomberlin breaks down the three categories of churches in America: about 20% are strong, 60% are stuck, and 20% are struggling. If your congregation falls into the stuck or struggling category, a merger might be the second chapter your church needs. Learn how to assess whether your church has the health and openness required to pursue a merger successfully.

What the Latest Statistics Show About Declining Churches and Merger Trends

Over 300,000 Protestant churches exist in the United States, but the landscape is shifting rapidly. Discover the current state of American churches, why approximately 100,000 church facilities could be repurposed or sold by 2030, and how mergers present an alternative to closure. This section reveals the data-driven reasons why church leadership conferences and denominational leaders are now taking mergers seriously.

Why Language Matters When Discussing Church Mergers With Your Congregation

The word "merger" carries negative baggage from the business world. Explore alternative language—restart, replant, partnership, adoption, collaboration, and consolidation—and learn why reframing the conversation can help your congregation embrace the possibility of joining with another healthy church. This is critical when communicating with your church members and moving toward a congregational vote.

How Multi-Site Church Models Are Changing Church Merger Conversations

The multi-site church movement fundamentally transformed how mergers work. Instead of the old "win-lose" merger outcomes (where one church absorbed another and both declined), today's mergers create "win-win-win" scenarios. Learn Jim Tomberlin's firsthand story from Willow Creek Community Church in Chicago and how it launched a 3,000-person campus through a strategic merger.

The Dance of Leadership: Making Church Mergers Work When Personalities Clash

Two churches can't have two leaders. This section explores the critical "dance" metaphor—understanding who leads and who follows in a merger conversation—and why it's not about size or wealth, but about health and trajectory. Discover the three foundational questions every merging church must answer: Is it possible? Is it feasible? Is it desirable?

Merging for Mission vs. Merging for Survival: The Critical Difference

Many struggling churches approach mergers from a place of desperation. But Jim Tomberlin explains why the most thriving post-merger churches shift their mindset from "how do we survive?" to "how do we reach our community?" This requires churches to let go of 1950s ministry models and embrace a "future-ready church" mentality that meets people where they are in 2025 and beyond.

25 Issues Every Church Merger Must Work Through (And Which Ones Are Deal-Breakers)

Church mergers aren't simple. Tomberlin and his team have identified 25 distinct issues that every...

Bart Blair shares five essential books to help church leaders grow in their ministry and guide their churches toward greater health and vitality in 2026. Whether you're in revitalization, replanting, or simply seeking to lead more effectively, these books offer practical wisdom and biblical foundations for lasting change.

• Available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and all major podcast platforms

• New episodes release on the 1st and 15th of each month

Lead Pastor at Beulah Baptist Church in Edmonton, Alberta

Subtitle: How Churches Can Equip the Saints to Do the Work of Ministry

Key Takeaway

Every church has discipleship-related systems (classes, programs, models), but not all have an integrated discipleship pathway where systems work together to move people toward spiritual maturity.

Featured Quote

"I have found that every church has discipleship-related systems, but not every church has a discipleship pathway. Essentially, any sort of class, model, or program can be seen as a discipleship-related system. However, it's only when all these systems are working together in an interconnected fashion (instead of working in isolation) that you get a discipleship pathway—a system of systems."

Why This Book Matters

• Moves beyond theory to practical systems

• Helps integrate disconnected programs into a cohesive pathway

• Based on real-world church implementation

Subtitle: Intimate, Nimble, Authentic, and Influential

Key Takeaway

Small churches have unique strengths—intimacy, agility, and authenticity—that should be leveraged as advantages rather than viewed as limitations to overcome.

Featured Quote

"A strategically small church is not a large church that hasn't grown yet. It's a church that has intentionally chosen its size because it believes that's the best way to accomplish its mission in its community."

Why This Book Matters

• Challenges the "bigger is better" mentality

• Gives permission to churches to define success on their own terms

• Helpful for replants and churches seeking to find their identity

Subtitle: The World Is Smaller Than You Think

Key Concept: The Oikos

The ancient Greek word "oikos" refers to your natural network of relationships—family, friends, neighbors, coworkers, and acquaintances. God has already placed 8-15 of these people in your everyday world as your primary mission field.

Key Takeaway

Most people come to faith through close relational influence, not programs or events. Share Christ naturally over time with the people God has already placed in your life.

Practical Steps

• Pray for these 8-15 people by name

• Build intentional relationships

• Share Christ naturally

Why This Book Matters

• Equips every believer (not just pastors) to be an evangelist

• Shifts focus from programs to personal relationships

• Multiplies evangelism and disciple-making through natural ne...

Creating Space for Every Child in Your Church. In this powerful episode, host Bart Blair, Director of Church Revitalization for Assist Church Expansion, sits down with seasoned occupational therapist Amanda Perches to unpack practical and affordable ways every church—no matter the size—can become a welcoming space for children with special needs and their families.

Are you a church leader, pastor, or ministry volunteer hoping your congregation can better serve families affected by autism, ADHD, sensory processing differences, or other neurodiversities? Are you searching for real, tried-and-true methods to establish special needs ministry, start a sensory room, and foster a culture of inclusion in your faith community? This is the episode for you!

Key Topics Covered:
- How Amanda’s 25+ years as an occupational therapist shaped her perspective on church ministry for families with special needs.
- Powerful statistics about the prevalence of special needs in communities—and the essential role churches can fill (did you know that as many as 1 in 5 families have a child with special needs?).
- Why small churches are naturally suited for effective special needs outreach—sometimes even better than large churches!
- Busting the myth that creating “special needs spaces” or “sensory rooms” is expensive, complicated, or requires huge renovations.
- Step-by-step guidance on **how to set up a special needs-friendly environment** for neurodiverse children, including practical lighting, seating, sound, and visual strategies.
- The most important “non-negotiables” for a basic sensory room every church can afford to implement.
- The critical importance of including parents, siblings, and teenage volunteers in church special needs ministry.
- Serving not just the child, but the whole family: why support and community for parents and siblings changes everything.
- How to communicate your new special needs ministry to the public with authenticity while avoiding common missteps.

Real-World Takeaways for Churches:
- Tips for assessing and repurposing the spaces you already have — no major construction required!
- Budget-friendly equipment and furnishings that support sensory needs, focus, and calm.
- Why listening first and collaborating with families is the foundational key to launching a meaningful ministry.
- How teens can transform their own lives and perspectives by volunteering with special needs children—even fulfilling their service hour requirements!

Whether you’re looking to attract young families from your neighborhood or simply want to serve differently-abled members of your congregation, you’ll find practical advice, encouragement, and inspiration in this episode.

Listen in and learn:
- How to approach outreach to families with special needs
- What questions to ask when designing your church spaces
- Ideas for flexible seating, fidgets, weighted blankets, quiet spaces, and more
- Encouragement for small and mid-sized churches—you can make a huge difference!
- Where to get professional help (and why consulting with occupational therapists matters)

Don’t forget to subscribe for fresh episodes on the 1st and 15th of every month with new guests, actionable conversations, and practical church renewal strategies. If this episode helped you, please LIKE, SHARE, and COMMENT with your own experiences or questions about special needs ministry!

Resources & Links:
- Visit our website for articles, eBooks, and free assessment tools: https://www.revitalizemy.church/
- Listen to past episodes on church revitalization, hospitality, leadership, and more!

#SpecialNeedsMinistry #ChurchRevitalization #InclusiveChurch #ChildrenWithAutism #ADHD #SensoryRoom #FamilyMinistry #ChurchLeadership #BartBlair #AmandaPerches #ChurchPodcast #Neurodiversity #AssistChurchExpansion

Is ministry burnout and discouragement draining your passion for church revitalization? In this episode, Bart Blair and Nathan Bryant share five biblical and practical steps to help pastors overcome discouragement, regain momentum, and enter 2026 with renewed fire for ministry.

Episode 33 of the Revitalize My Church Podcast explores:

Step 1: Look to Jesus for Restoration — Understand that your identity as God's child matters more than your ministry performance. God loves you unconditionally, not because of what you accomplish. Learn how to lean into your calling with confidence in God's provision, not your own abilities.

Step 2: Look Back on What God Has Already Done — High-achieving pastors often skip celebration to move to the next goal. Discover why celebrating small wins—spiritual growth, restored marriages, baptisms, and the simple fact that your church is still alive—is critical for combating discouragement.

Step 3: Check the Eternal Scoreboard — Stop measuring ministry success only by numbers. Understand that one person coming to Christ has eternal consequences that far exceed any attendance metric. Fix your eyes on what is unseen, not on visible metrics.

Step 4: Share the Load Through Delegation — Most pastors are doing too much and carrying unsustainable responsibility. Create a practical inventory of your tasks, identify what only you can do, and delegate the rest. Discover how delegation connects others to their calling and prevents pastoral burnout.

Step 5: Rest and Care for Your Soul — Jesus modeled regular withdrawal for prayer and restoration. Learn how to implement a monthly (or weekly) personal retreat day. Nathan shares his powerful practice of using a notebook to brain-dump burdens, clearing mental space for genuine encounter with God.

Bonus: Build Peer Accountability — Every pastor needs another pastor who understands the weight of ministry. Learn how to find and nurture a peer mentor relationship that provides encouragement, prayer, and authentic community.

This episode includes real-world examples, like how pastor Jerry faced unexpected resistance to simply repainting his church sanctuary, and Bart's golden accountability relationship with pastor Bob Church in Alberta. Whether you're in a small church plant or established congregation, whether you're struggling with unmet goals, resistance to change, or pure exhaustion, this conversation offers hope and actionable steps to reclaim your joy in ministry.

If you're tired, discouraged, or questioning your calling as a pastor in church revitalization, this episode will remind you of your true identity in Christ and provide the practical tools to sustain healthy, joyful ministry.

For more resources on church revitalization, pastor burnout, and leadership development, visit RevitalizeMyChurch.com or connect with Assist Church Expansion.

Subscribe to the Revitalize My Church podcast for episodes on church growth strategies, overcoming resistance to change, community outreach, and pastoral health. New episodes release on the 1st and 15th of every month.

#ChurchRevitalization #PastorBurnout #MinistryDiscouragement #ChurchLeadership #PastoralCare #SmallChurchMinistry #ChurchGrowth #PastoralWellness #ChristianLeadership #LocalChurch